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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: dukecola on March 13, 2017, 03:13:01 AM
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For those who may be interested, this thread will be about how I'm installing the Diginow 6.6kw Supercharger in my TopBox. Topbox is a 40L Givi E360, monokey mounted. I have a PowerTank, so mounting in the top box is my only option. Yes it could go in side case, but the weight on one side would throw bike off balance. I suppose one module could go in each side case but that would be a wiring nightmare. Plan right now is to use Trailer Hitch Locks to secure the chargers to under the monokey plate. I'll post a pic of a trailer hitch lock later. I will be mounting the J1172 inlet to the rear wall of the case, using aluminum backplate on the inside for additional strength. I'm guessing the plastic of the case side wall isn't too strong. My degree is in aeronautics so kind of useless for this project, so if someone has better suggestions feel free to post them.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2590_zpsjemmxpo8.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2590_zpsjemmxpo8.jpg.html)
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Here's the locks I plan on using. To install will be a breeze and it will be easily removable. The stainless shaft is only .26" so it should fit thru the small brackets on the bottom of the modules. It's slide lock is adjustable up to 3 3/8" so it should be long enough to go into the bottom bracket thru the case wall and thru the Givi plate. I'll also have a 1.5" wide aluminum bar, 3/8 thick x 12" long on the underside to the top box mounting plate. This way I can cinch the slip locks up tight against the aluminum, rather that up on the plastic grid of the mounting plate.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/pin%20lock_zpslgohzl0f.png) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/pin%20lock_zpslgohzl0f.png.html)
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I'm super jealous of your 2x3.3kW setup. I just used my 1x3.3kW for the first time today, and it was an "ah, ha!" moment never ever going back to slow charging again... I think you could fit more than just 2x3.3kW in that case, no?
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This is great! I like how small they are to fit side by side in a top case like that.
But, I must say for anyone attempting this: please please please reinforce your top rack to support this load.
Any bumps at highway speed will cause this load to oscillate and bounce on the end of a lever that is not well-fastened to the frame. The top rack is only attached by two small M5 bolts to the frame and often enough does not rest fully on the tail, allowing free-play oscillation. Adding a lot of mass in the top case can fatigue the bars quickly (I've had my top rack bolts break at speed with a nice "ping!" sound I could hear through my earplugs).
For what it's worth, the older Elcon 2500 in a top or side case is just slightly lighter than 2 of the new 3.3kW Supercharger units (also by Elcon), and does cause this problem. If you load this mass into a side case asymmetrically, the side rack will start to bend to the side over time, especially if any knocks are taken.
Terry's solution for his top rack Supercharger was to weld tubes from the bottom of the top rack plate all the way to the passenger footpeg mount area. I've done passably well by putting adhesive-backed padding between the rack tab and the tail plastics, but the dirt and forces there are enough that this requires occasional checking.
Ref http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack)
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The top rack is only attached by two small M5 bolts to the frame and often enough does not rest fully on the tail, allowing free-play oscillation.
Dont forget that the east bolts also hold on the top rack. I make sure my seat bolts are done up really tight. The friction alone of the seat bolts helps hold the top rack tight. The tabs with the M5 bolts secures it even more.
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The top rack is only attached by two small M5 bolts to the frame and often enough does not rest fully on the tail, allowing free-play oscillation.
Dont forget that the east bolts also hold on the top rack. I make sure my seat bolts are done up really tight. The friction alone of the seat bolts helps hold the top rack tight. The tabs with the M5 bolts secures it even more.
Well, yes, that's one reason my top rack didn't fall onto the highway when the the top bolts went (along with slight bracing from the side rack bolts), but they're not really what you want to rely on as they don't dampen that dynamic load.
I also recommend removing your case from the top rack before unbolting the seat for this reason.
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Terry's solution for his top rack Supercharger was to weld tubes from the bottom of the top rack plate all the way to the passenger footpeg mount area. I've done passably well by putting adhesive-backed padding between the rack tab and the tail plastics, but the dirt and forces there are enough that this requires occasional checking.
Ref http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack)
Yes, right now I got a thick rubber pad under rack at the tail and will be working with my brother in law to weld either steel tube reinforcements or aluminum pipe. Would you have a pic of where he attached and routed to the pegs?
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I'm super jealous of your 2x3.3kW setup. I just used my 1x3.3kW for the first time today, and it was an "ah, ha!" moment never ever going back to slow charging again... I think you could fit more than just 2x3.3kW in that case, no?
It's heavy enough as it is, but a third would fit. I'm trying to keep as much weight forward as I can. 22lbs is max capacity of the case's load. Plus, there just aren't that many stations capable of 9.9kw charging so modules beyond 6.6 would require using input from a second station. Even Diginow doesn't recommend using the onboard with the 6.6 on one J1772.
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For what it's worth, the older Elcon 2500 in a top or side case is just slightly lighter than 2 of the new 3.3kW Supercharger units (also by Elcon)
So are these the diginow chargers or Elcon charges?
I thought the diginow charger was one charger and if so, why is the thred heading saying Diginow 6.6kw charger?
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So are these the diginow chargers or Elcon charges?
I thought the diginow charger was one charger and if so, why is the thred heading saying Diginow 6.6kw charger?
The digiNow Super Charger (SCv1) was an E-MotorWerks 11kW (reportedly 15kW peak max? If I remember correctly?) monolith charging module. Version 2 (SCv2) is an array of Elcon HK-J 3.3kW modules that you can stack a few of them together (reportedly up to three of these 3.3kW modules can physically fit under the 2013+ S/DS cowl). What I see pictured above are the SCv2 modules, 3.3kW each.
The SCv1 you had to find one source of power and most charging stations at least in USA max out at 6kW each J1772. With the SCv2 you can mix-and-match modules and inputs when you install them, so you can run two 3.3kW modules off one input, and then a third 3.3kW module together with the 1.3kW onboard charger of the S/DS models off of a second input. This works well when you have two J1772 inputs available while charging.
Essentially the digiNow Super Charger version 2 is a radical improvement in capability size and weight over the Hollywood Electrics modified Elcon 2500.
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I saw Hollywood Electrics no longer sells the 2500 Elcons. But the V1 was what $3600 for the 11kW and three of these are over $5000 for 9.9. Could be less if they sell just an expansion pack with just the unit but like you said you'll need 2 J1772 plug points at some point.
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...But the V1 was what $3600 for the 11kW and three of these are over $5000 for 9.9. Could be less if they sell just an expansion pack with just the unit but like you said you'll need 2 J1772 plug points at some point.
The digiNow.it super charger website (http://diginow.it/super-charger-for-zero-motorcycle.php) says $3600 for 9.9kW (three 3.3kW modules).
I had a SCv1 order converted to an SCv2 order 2x3.3kW. I will try to pay to upgrade the order to the 3x3.3kW. As of today I have received only the one 3.3kW module.
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This bulkhead fitting came in today that I will use to route the power/signal wires into the top case. This fitting has a collet which when the outer nut is tightened will grasp the wires to keep them from moving. Plan is to store wires in the case pushing them through this until the Anderson connector touches, then tighten collet to keep it in place. Then when I stop for a charge, loosen the nut and pull wires out till the anderson reaches the aux port.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2593_zpsichx2qfl.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2593_zpsichx2qfl.jpg.html)
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Terry's solution for his top rack Supercharger was to weld tubes from the bottom of the top rack plate all the way to the passenger footpeg mount area. I've done passably well by putting adhesive-backed padding between the rack tab and the tail plastics, but the dirt and forces there are enough that this requires occasional checking.
Ref http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Top_Rack)
Yes, right now I got a thick rubber pad under rack at the tail and will be working with my brother in law to weld either steel tube reinforcements or aluminum pipe. Would you have a pic of where he attached and routed to the pegs?
I have a photo, but I won't share it without explicit permission. You'd better ask Terry for how he did it.
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So bad news from Diginow. Since I'm not going to be able to splice the a waterproof connector wires to feed them thru a bulkhead fitting into the top case, I decided to install something like this on the case under the passenger backrest. http://www.motorcyclecloseouts.com/extras/cruiser+accessories/bone+mountain+motor+gear_double+impact+rider+backrest+pocket?utm_source=gps&utm_medium=csn&utm_term=Double+Impact+Rider+Backrest+Pocket&utm_campaign=extras-cruiser+accessories&gclid=CNWW1vWH39ICFdeFswodsakO1g (http://www.motorcyclecloseouts.com/extras/cruiser+accessories/bone+mountain+motor+gear_double+impact+rider+backrest+pocket?utm_source=gps&utm_medium=csn&utm_term=Double+Impact+Rider+Backrest+Pocket&utm_campaign=extras-cruiser+accessories&gclid=CNWW1vWH39ICFdeFswodsakO1g)
Basically it's a zippered pocket. So what I'll do is cut a big enough hole in the case wall so I can get the connector inside the case, then mount this vinyl pocket over the hole. I'll store the charging wires in this zippered "pocket" and when I need to charge, just unzip and stretch wires out to plug into aux port. My seat is out for customization now, I'm going to swing by the shop and see if they cam make me a pocket case that matches the seat covering.
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Top case may be very limited for permanent installation. What about mounting to crash bars, or side rack? Also what is the bad news from digiNow?
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Top case may be very limited for permanent installation. What about mounting to crash bars, or side rack? Also what is the bad news from digiNow?
The 6.6 modules fit nice in my top case. The bad news was only that my plans to run the wiring into the case via the bulkhead fitting I had planned will not be possible because the signal wires have a clip connector on the end and it's too big to fit thru the connector and the wires cant be cut and reattached inside the case because those wires need full watertight integrity. OK though, I spoke today with the shop that's redoing my seat and they are going to make me a pocket pouch that will mount on the case below the backrest. So, I'll be able to cut a big enough hole thru the case to get the connector inside. Side benefit is that I'll be able to store the wires in this pocket, and just open it when I stop to charge and extend the wires to the aux port. Here's what the pouch will look like.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/109022forkbagclassic_2_zpsip8xpove.jpeg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/109022forkbagclassic_2_zpsip8xpove.jpeg.html)
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The connectors are just Anderson SB and Weatherpak, easy to source the pin removal tools for either.
*edit* maybe this?: https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000IIY56E (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B000IIY56E)
and
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005T5Y6RE (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005T5Y6RE)
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I don't know what kind of space three of these will need but as I was riding today i looked down at the "tank" and thought why not just make it bigger. It has nice lines and is fine for the standard setup but I thinking of something like a combo of these concepts.
From the old "ZEV" bike: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5179.0;attach=4943 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5179.0;attach=4943)
Also: http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/resources/tank+storage+nobk2+wb.jpg (http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/resources/tank+storage+nobk2+wb.jpg)
Achieving a higher wider bulbous profile like a triumph tiger or some of the Japanese sport bikes.
Just a quick Ebay search found this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-Honda-CBR600RR-600-OEM-Tank-Fairing-CowL-Fuel-Cover-Plastic-Red-Black-GAS-/281968807152?hash=item41a6a68cf0:g:GAUAAOSwP~tW6aTX&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-Honda-CBR600RR-600-OEM-Tank-Fairing-CowL-Fuel-Cover-Plastic-Red-Black-GAS-/281968807152?hash=item41a6a68cf0:g:GAUAAOSwP~tW6aTX&vxp=mtr)
Would need heavy modifying for what ever you try but if your dropping $3600 for the chargers a few hundred for a system that holds them safely tucked away seems worth it.
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I don't know what kind of space three of these will need but as I was riding today i looked down at the "tank" and thought why not just make it bigger. It has nice lines and is fine for the standard setup but I thinking of something like a combo of these concepts.
Achieving a higher wider bulbous profile like a triumph tiger or some of the Japanese sport bikes.
Would need heavy modifying for what ever you try but if your dropping $3600 for the chargers a few hundred for a system that holds them safely tucked away seems worth it.
Ideally mounting them in the current tank plastic is the best option, but us power tank owners have little other choice. If you tried to put even 2 modules in a jury-rigged taller tank, you'd be looking at close to 10" added height. Mounting them horizontal would be 5", doable, but combined width of those is 18" and that's wider than the bike. No real method to bolt them down either. The way I look at it is 80% of my riding is local and the 13+PT provides plenty of range for a Sunday ride. So, with my top case install, in 2 minutes I'll be able to remove or install them in the case if a particular trip will need fast charging.
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Since I've got plans to add a tail later I'm looking to maybe install it in a pelican case like this.
(http://i.imgur.com/FWGqZPQ.jpg)
Of course it has to be rotated to no fuck up the streamline too much. But for the rest it seems like a good candidate, it can be mounted very sturdy permanently on the bike, the case it self is also very though and waterproof.
Can somebody shoot holes in this plan or is it decent?
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Since I've got plans to add a tail later I'm looking to maybe install it in a pelican case like this.
Of course it has to be rotated to no fuck up the streamline too much. But for the rest it seems like a good candidate, it can be mounted very sturdy permanently on the bike, the case it self is also very though and waterproof.
Can somebody shoot holes in this plan or is it decent?
Pelican cases are great. I put an Elcon 2500 in one for a mockup and it seemed extremely sturdy. I still find the rack more of a concern than the case...
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Since I've got plans to add a tail later I'm looking to maybe install it in a pelican case like this.
Of course it has to be rotated to no fuck up the streamline too much. But for the rest it seems like a good candidate, it can be mounted very sturdy permanently on the bike, the case it self is also very though and waterproof.
Can somebody shoot holes in this plan or is it decent?
Pelican cases are great. I put an Elcon 2500 in one for a mockup and it seemed extremely sturdy. I still find the rack more of a concern than the case...
I don't have the Zero with me now but aren't there extra mounting holes in the frame for the side rack? If so a simple strut would make a lot of difference.
Also it will be a bit more forward so it doesn't stick so much out of the back:
(http://i.imgur.com/rKwVl7C.png)
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Since I've got plans to add a tail later I'm looking to maybe install it in a pelican case like this.
Of course it has to be rotated to no fuck up the streamline too much. But for the rest it seems like a good candidate, it can be mounted very sturdy permanently on the bike, the case it self is also very though and waterproof.
Can somebody shoot holes in this plan or is it decent?
Pelican cases are great. I put an Elcon 2500 in one for a mockup and it seemed extremely sturdy. I still find the rack more of a concern than the case...
I don't have the Zero with me now but aren't there extra mounting holes in the frame for the side rack? If so a simple strut would make a lot of difference.
Also it will be a bit more forward so it doesn't stick so much out of the back:
Yes, that's a fine idea; push the load forward where it won't act as much like a lever on the top rack.
Putting some basic cushion under it so the seat absorbs some load and oscillation would also be good. For my tail understructure, I'm considering a thick aluminum plate bent into a box shape to fit over my Happy Trails rack and the top rack; and something to distribute the loading onto the seat would help.
Honestly, the new Superchargers / Elcons are short enough that you could just put the case over the seat and use brackets against the side racks themselves, freeing up the top case for normal cargo. I used a Pelican case on an Elcon 2500 vertically in the seat, but I think it'd work better with dual 3.3's and a smaller case:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6480 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6480)
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Base mounting plate for the modules. .019 Aluminum 2024-T3. Drilled and ready to mount modules. I will be drilling vent holes in the base plate and the bottom of the top box that will be directly above the Givi top box universal mounting plate. The elcon's fans will draw cool air into the box from below and push the hot air out the top. Ultimately I want to be able to charge with the top box cover closed, not propped open. I'm still searching for the perfect vent grill. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg.html)
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(http://i.imgur.com/rKwVl7C.png)
I have my top box in this position. I do tend to clip it with my foot when getting on though.
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Vent holes drilled. Reason I went with thicker aluminum was so I could drill holes and not lose strength. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2610_zpspxlrntzg.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2610_zpspxlrntzg.jpg.html)
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Here's the underside of assembled unit's vent holes. I will cut air openings in the bottom of top case that will allow air to be pulled in by the fans. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2611_zpsfvhqudje.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2611_zpsfvhqudje.jpg.html)
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Here's the assembled unit, essentially one piece so it can be lifted out for trips where charging isn't needed. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2612_zpsneckxfxv.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2612_zpsneckxfxv.jpg.html)
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Here's the unit dropped into the case. Since the walls of the top case are curved, I had to trim and bevel the corners of the base plate so it would sit flat on the floor. Next step installing high density foam around the perimeter of the plate to act as a shock absorber.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2613_zpst4d7ukfx.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2613_zpst4d7ukfx.jpg.html)
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The insulation is peeling away on the middle port of my SCv2 unit as well. Any idea about a fix for that?
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The insulation is peeling away on the middle port of my SCv2 unit as well. Any idea about a fix for that?
I wouldn't worry about it, it's not really insulation, each wire itself is insulated. I think the wire cover you are concerned about is just to prevent chaffing of the wires. Nothing to worry about where it's not covered at the port. Perhaps Brendan can comment but that's my take.
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The insulation is peeling away on the middle port of my SCv2 unit as well. Any idea about a fix for that?
I wouldn't worry about it, it's not really insulation, each wire itself is insulated. I think the wire cover you are concerned about is just to prevent chaffing of the wires. Nothing to worry about where it's not covered at the port. Perhaps Brendan can comment but that's my take.
Okay I did get to chat with Brandon about a few topics and it seems you're right it is a non-issue. Nice install you've got there!
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Base mounting plate for the modules. .019 Aluminum 2024-T3. Drilled and ready to mount modules. I will be drilling vent holes in the base plate and the bottom of the top box that will be directly above the Givi top box universal mounting plate. The elcon's fans will draw cool air into the box from below and push the hot air out the top. Ultimately I want to be able to charge with the top box cover closed, not propped open. I'm still searching for the perfect vent grill. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg.html)
If you want to charge with the top case closed, there is also a water cooling option available.
(http://i.imgur.com/rKwVl7C.png)
I have my top box in this position. I do tend to clip it with my foot when getting on though.
Can you show a picture?
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Sure, I'll sort something out at the weekend.
I'm using a Givi E251 monokey plate, which has lots of mounting holes (actually diamond shaped recesses), so all I did was use the ones right at the back of the plate to bring it as far forwards as possible.
(https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/product_images//givi_universal-monokey-plate_e251.jpg)
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Related writeup on Luggage Rack Installation (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#Luggage_Rack_Installation) (Zeromanual)
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Sure, I'll sort something out at the weekend.
I'm using a Givi E251 monokey plate, which has lots of mounting holes (actually diamond shaped recesses), so all I did was use the ones right at the back of the plate to bring it as far forwards as possible.
(https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/product_images//givi_universal-monokey-plate_e251.jpg)
That's the plate I have, but I mounted mine all the way to rear because I carry a passenger. If you mount charger in a top box, as forward as you can go is better.
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I have this plate as well, and had it forward until my girlfriend went along for a ride and complained about the positioning.
I'm starting to think we could put some suitable rails on the top rack to slide the case forward and back with anchor points.
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Base mounting plate for the modules. .019 Aluminum 2024-T3. Drilled and ready to mount modules. I will be drilling vent holes in the base plate and the bottom of the top box that will be directly above the Givi top box universal mounting plate. The elcon's fans will draw cool air into the box from below and push the hot air out the top. Ultimately I want to be able to charge with the top box cover closed, not propped open. I'm still searching for the perfect vent grill. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg.html)
If you want to charge with the top case closed, there is also a water cooling option available.
(http://i.imgur.com/rKwVl7C.png)
I have my top box in this position. I do tend to clip it with my foot when getting on though.
Can you show a picture?
Yes, I've seen the watercooled version, but I'm trying to keep weight down. Actually what I think I'm going to do for top vents is mount two J1772 female inlets with guts removed on the lid of the case above the fans. This way, when not charging, can just close the cover and make it waterproof. All the other vents I've looked at are not waterproof, especially if mounted horizontally. The female inlet might be perfect. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/T-Inlet-open_zpstbmhwirr.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/T-Inlet-open_zpstbmhwirr.jpg.html)
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I have this plate as well, and had it forward until my girlfriend went along for a ride and complained about the positioning.
I'm starting to think we could put some suitable rails on the top rack to slide the case forward and back with anchor points.
That's a good idea, or mounts case on sliding rails like under cabinet garbage bins, lock in different locations with a pin lock.
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Vent holes drilled in bottom of case. I plan on drilling more, what I've done so far doesn't seem to have effected rigidity of the case so I'll be adding some more. These holes are above the GIVI top case mounting plate grid. I removed the thin plastic cover plate from the GIVI that covers the grid. The vents I drilled are above the grid plate so should get nice airflow. I dry fitted some Rubatex goalie mask foam, the charging assembly will sit on a nice cushion. Yes, I know the Elcons are shock resistant, but with this foam it really absorbs impact. I use to take 100mph slapshots to the facemask and this foam really absorbed most of the shock. Three more steps to go, Brandon found 2 bare J1772 inlets he's sending me to use as waterproof vent caps for the top; my seat guy will be making me a leather pocket to store the wires that go to the aux port, and last step, installing the J1772 power inlet thru the case wall. The GIVI case is kind of tricky because it has curved walls so the inlet wont mount completely flat and sealed. I'm going to fabricate a rubber gasket that is thicker on the area that is curved so it seals up nice. In retrospect, a Trekker case would have made this project much easier.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2622_zpsk4swzgxe.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2622_zpsk4swzgxe.jpg.html)
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Making progress but had to use a different top case, the Givi E360 just didn't have enough room and the curved walls made locating a place to mount the inlet and vents difficult. So, I picked up this Kappa KGR52 which is Givi's Italian version of the Trekker. Pretty much same case except doesnt have the quick access door like the Trekker.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2638_zpsudd9rcwo.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2638_zpsudd9rcwo.jpg.html)
The inlet installed pretty easily on the bottom. I used aluminum supports on the inside to stiffen up the mount to the case floor. I didn't want it flexing the plastic and causing fatigue. It doesn't flex at all.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2636_zps8mzcooyv.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2636_zps8mzcooyv.jpg.html)
Here's how the J1772 plug attaches.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2635_zps7ilydtas.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2635_zps7ilydtas.jpg.html)
Now, I need to do some wire routing cleanup, get the top vents in, and drill exit hole out the front for the wires that go to the aux port. This pouch will cover the exit hole and store the cable. This will mount on the case under the passenger backrest.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/pouch_zpsn8qoxjqk.jpeg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/pouch_zpsn8qoxjqk.jpeg.html)
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Progressing. Mounted the wire pass thru fitting under the backrest. I used waterproof electrical fittings found on Amazon, gutted the outlet part out and trimmed down the plastic that was holding the outlet.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2644_zps8j8zm7xy.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2644_zps8j8zm7xy.jpg.html)
This is what the back of the fitting looks like inside the case. The wires pass thru very nicely.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2645_zps9ra1qba1.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2645_zps9ra1qba1.jpg.html)
Screwed the pouch on the case under the backrest. The pass-thru fitting is inside the pouch.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2649_zpsg1iezqv1.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2649_zpsg1iezqv1.jpg.html)
This is how the fitting looks inside the pouch. I cut a slit on bottom of pouch to rout the wires into the case, then thru the fitting to inside the case.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2647_zpsnj0ksffb.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2647_zpsnj0ksffb.jpg.html)
Next step is shielding the wires out of the aux port and securing them along the side of the bike so they dont flap in the wind. Waiting some for black aviation grade silicone tape to arrive. Will wrap the wires with this tape (think heat shrink cable covers only way more durable). I may even use liquid rubber to paint the exposed end wires where the Anderson connector meet the wrap.(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2650_zpsaphgp1m0.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2650_zpsaphgp1m0.jpg.html)
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I'd be tempted to run them through the rear plastics, and then under the seat.
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I'd be tempted to run them through the rear plastics, and then under the seat.
The only thing needed from the SCv2 charging array is access to is the AUX charging port. No need to route through the internals of the bike.
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I'd be tempted to run them through the rear plastics, and then under the seat.
The only thing needed from the SCv2 charging array is access to is the AUX charging port. No need to route through the internals of the bike.
While this install looks very clean and well-thought-out, the best result will always involve minimizing chafing, bending, and movement of the cables. Routing the cables under the seat with some mesh sheathing seems like a good idea aside from the bend needed to get there from that port.
Of course, I'm more comfortable attaching the cables to the controller's battery terminals, partly because I know that when I place that end of the cabling, it won't move.
I think for running the cables outside, a stiff shrink-wrap tube and a mesh sheath around the cables might help, tucked just under the edge of the seat and probably zip-tied to the top rack bars.
I should warn that leaving a cable like this plugged into the accessory charging port makes the bike vulnerable to cutouts from moisture on the signal pins in the accessory inlet, particularly in a heavy rain. I've had a bike cut out on me because I left a Y-splitter plugged into the port and it even got the fault while the rubber boots covered both Y plugs. Again, in a heavy rain.
dukecola does seem to have some of these risks in mind, but it's worth mentioning.
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks? What about rubber sealing the Anderson at the aux port. Similar to the slip-on boot?
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks?
I'll post a couple of my best photos in a moment. Brandon's okay'd releasing relevant parts of what I documented; I just haven't followed up properly.
Mostly, rain is fine, but spray up from the wheel and belt at speed in a heavy rain can sometimes defeat engineering assumptions.
What about rubber sealing the Anderson at the aux port. Similar to the slip-on boot?
Yes, that seems to be fine. I've used self-adhesive vinyl wrap tape that way partly for strain relief on the back of the connector.
Aside: I found this strain relief bracket just now, but it's for a different-sized Anderson connector:
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-945-sb175-cable-clamp
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@BrianTRice I've ridden in all-weather and not experienced that issue yet.
Connection on my bike as shown from http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger_V2 (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Zero_Aftermarket#DigiNow_Super_Charger_V2):
(http://zeromanual.com/images/4/4e/DIGINOW3KWSCV2_chargetankscv2_auxroutesbxport.jpg)
If the bike rides through some mud or deep water I could see a potential for contaminants getting into the back of that SBX connector. The more common event for me would be condensation from atmospheric water vapor, so I'm likely to leave this connection open-air unless I encounter that error condition.
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Here's the flange inlet I used. I removed the plug guts and sawed off most of the housing, leaving only enough for the rubber plug to sit in for a good seal.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2656_zpsrxvycaha.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2656_zpsrxvycaha.jpg.html)
These can be found on Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E6N0XFI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E6N0XFI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Here's how I mounted the fresh air intake on the bottom. This pic was dry fit, I actually used black Nylon Machine screws and nuts to secure it. There wont be any stress on this so didn't need to use steel bolts, plus the black looks better.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2652_zpszyjsm9bp.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2652_zpszyjsm9bp.jpg.html)
Here's how I mounted the exhaust vents. I put one on each side rather than in top, looks better and since they are on the side of the top lid, they will vent air just fine.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2659_zpslgctw3xn.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2659_zpslgctw3xn.jpg.html)
Side vents look nice closed up.
(http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2658_zpsrcoantq6.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2658_zpsrcoantq6.jpg.html)
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks?
I don't have the lug specs handy, but do know to ensure you get a top-notch crimp job since these should handle 80A @ 116V.
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I've made a wiki stub for this: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Top_Case_Charger_Install (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Top_Case_Charger_Install)
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks?
I'll post a couple of my best photos in a moment. Brandon's okay'd releasing relevant parts of what I documented; I just haven't followed up properly.
Mostly, rain is fine, but spray up from the wheel and belt at speed in a heavy rain can sometimes defeat engineering assumptions.
What about rubber sealing the Anderson at the aux port. Similar to the slip-on boot?
Yes, that seems to be fine. I've used self-adhesive vinyl wrap tape that way partly for strain relief on the back of the connector.
Aside: I found this strain relief bracket just now, but it's for a different-sized Anderson connector:
https://powerwerx.com/anderson-945-sb175-cable-clamp (https://powerwerx.com/anderson-945-sb175-cable-clamp)
Thanks, that'd be great. I like that strain relief bracket, will def get one. This is the tape I plan on using going from connector up to the case. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LA2258/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002LA2258/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) Basically, you can roll it over a wire, or sandwich it. Self adhering, insulates, strong and waterproof. Plan was to sandwich it over the three wires coming out of the connector and then painting waterproof liquid electrical tape from it onto the connector to get a waterproof seal. It's pliable, so it can be pulled off easy if necessary. liquid tape: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPAN2K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FPAN2K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks?
I don't have the lug specs handy, but do know to ensure you get a top-notch crimp job since these should handle 80A @ 116V.
Awesome. I'll likely hook up this way. I have electrician in the family, I'll see if he can point me to someone who can crimp properly.
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Oh, for those of you wondering how 25lbs in the top case effected bike handling. Wife and i went for 100mi ride Sun with charger in the top case. I really didn't notice anything different, but that's prob because I mostly ride 2-up anyway, what's another 25lbs.
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I asked Brandon if there were any issues leaving it plugged in, he said just leave it plugged in all the time. I'm not opposed to attaching them direct to the controller's battery terminals, you have a link to a installation of how that looks?
I don't have the lug specs handy, but do know to ensure you get a top-notch crimp job since these should handle 80A @ 116V.
Awesome. I'll likely hook up this way. I have electrician in the family, I'll see if he can point me to someone who can crimp properly.
I made a wiki article for it at least: http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Charging_Through_Sevcon_Controller (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Advanced_Modifications#Charging_Through_Sevcon_Controller)
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Oh, for those of you wondering how 25lbs in the top case effected bike handling. Wife and i went for 100mi ride Sun with charger in the top case. I really didn't notice anything different, but that's prob because I mostly ride 2-up anyway, what's another 25lbs.
Mind whether the case waves around at all. Make sure it doesn't flex those rack bars.
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I recently installed a new accessory charger cable which terminates under the seat. Connected directly to battery terminals via a re set table circuit breaker, which I can access via the Frunk. Ideas was to be able to plug in chargers and leave them connected (eg in saddlebags) without the issues of the standard connector near the motor. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/88a35fd1b3f6fc22e5af91293441073e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/1ef4eba0254bb31417419806d5d7f87f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/443b40bba152f4f8f353472e261f34ec.jpg)
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I recently installed a new accessory charger cable which terminates under the seat. Connected directly to battery terminals via a re set table circuit breaker, which I can access via the Frunk. Ideas was to be able to plug in chargers and leave them connected (eg in saddlebags) without the issues of the standard connector near the motor.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/88a35fd1b3f6fc22e5af91293441073e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/1ef4eba0254bb31417419806d5d7f87f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/443b40bba152f4f8f353472e261f34ec.jpg)
What exact breaker did you go with? Is that a Carlton? Fast or slow break?
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Oh, for those of you wondering how 25lbs in the top case effected bike handling. Wife and i went for 100mi ride Sun with charger in the top case. I really didn't notice anything different, but that's prob because I mostly ride 2-up anyway, what's another 25lbs.
Mind whether the case waves around at all. Make sure it doesn't flex those rack bars.
I'm watching that closely. Have a high density foam pad on the tail for now and next project is to mount additional support bars on each side. I wondering if I can run a support from top rack bar down to the side case bar, I don't carry much in the sides. I also don't carry a dog or boxes of chargers in the top case :-) Just the 6.6's only and they are mostly forward in the 52 ltr case.
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Well it took some time but the longest SC install in the history is finally taking shape!
Adaptation of the top case bracket:
(https://i.imgur.com/izgmXTU.jpg)
The trunk mounted on the bike:
(https://i.imgur.com/UAny6BK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/oVHGKzR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/M5QrL0T.jpg)
Yes I know it is really big but that way it is future proof and I can still use it as a top case.
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Good job, looks nice. I didn't have luxury of moving my case forward as I always have a passenger there. All my pics were removed by photobucket because they want me to pay for their service. If you need any for venting/securing ideas, PM me and I'll send you them
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Woah awesome!
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Good job, looks nice. I didn't have luxury of moving my case forward as I always have a passenger there. All my pics were removed by photobucket because they want me to pay for their service. If you need any for venting/securing ideas, PM me and I'll send you them
Will do, I'll upload them to Imgur to share in this topic.
Woah awesome!
Still have to do al the internal stuff but we're getting there... Too bad I couldn't make the tours I had planned this summer but if the weather is right I might head south or even attempt an Iron Butt run if it works out on the charging/riding front.
I am very happy with the new mounting plate, it is much more sturdier than the standard Givi solution.
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I would like some thoughts from you lot.
The shop that was going to install the SC kinda took their hands off it after installing the case because they weren't happy with installing in water cooling in such tight spaces without documentation. So at this point I still have a very good installed top case and a bag of SC components.
I originally purchased the SC so I could commute on my Zero, because I had to charge halfway and perhaps a second time in the winter to reach work. Due to it's expected many usage per week year round I then opted for the most balls to the wall option with a 4 unit water cooled setup.
Between ordering and now I had a chance to move much closer to work an can actually use my bicycle to commute. The Zero is now more or less for fun rides and longer distance errands which are much rarer. Now that DB has tested the efficiency and the SC turns out to not produce that much heat at all I'm wondering if it would be wise to retrofit my unit with fans for air cooling because water might be a bit op after all in my new situation.
This would create a much simpler installation and take up less space which I can use for cargo. By the time the SC has to throttle back due to warmth the bike is pretty much full or the battery itself is getting hot anyway.
I'm curious about your thoughts concerning this.
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Base mounting plate for the modules. .019 Aluminum 2024-T3. Drilled and ready to mount modules. I will be drilling vent holes in the base plate and the bottom of the top box that will be directly above the Givi top box universal mounting plate. The elcon's fans will draw cool air into the box from below and push the hot air out the top. Ultimately I want to be able to charge with the top box cover closed, not propped open. I'm still searching for the perfect vent grill. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/IMG_2609_zpsb6ydby0s.jpg.html)Um, I can't see your pics. I get a gif that says something like "update your account to enable 3rd party hosting." Does anyone else have that problem and/or can tell me what I need to do to view the pics?
If you want to charge with the top case closed, there is also a water cooling option available.
(http://i.imgur.com/rKwVl7C.png)
I have my top box in this position. I do tend to clip it with my foot when getting on though.
Can you show a picture?
Yes, I've seen the watercooled version, but I'm trying to keep weight down. Actually what I think I'm going to do for top vents is mount two J1772 female inlets with guts removed on the lid of the case above the fans. This way, when not charging, can just close the cover and make it waterproof. All the other vents I've looked at are not waterproof, especially if mounted horizontally. The female inlet might be perfect. (http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd128/dukecola/T-Inlet-open_zpstbmhwirr.jpg) (http://s221.photobucket.com/user/dukecola/media/T-Inlet-open_zpstbmhwirr.jpg.html)
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Putting even 15lbs for 2 units at 6.6kW in the top case was never a good idea.
For comparison, I’ll show my tail structure built from Happy Trails SU racks and an aluminum box structure:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171026/50ca5462449f22726a35ccdd4928b598.jpg)
This is extremely sturdy and distributes the load of a lot of luggage around all mounting points.
On my outbound trip leg (850 miles from SF to Seattle), the 2 SCv2 units sat cushioned in a duffle bag on the passenger seat ahead of the box.
This made the riding dynamics worse, by making the bike swing with tail momentum when changing lean angle, and pulling the Cg back. I had a much better time on the inbound leg after I bought Tank panniers and strap mounted them over and around the battery compartment.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171026/ad8e8d3d2d52125a0aa72e75f3ca6bcc.jpg)
These happen to be a new Touratech product but probably have some existing equivalents. The point is that once fastened properly, each case held one v2 unit comfortably against the drop bars, and riding dynamics were much better.
So, this is what I suggest and I strongly recommend against further tail installs of chargers.
*moderator edit* added width to img tags
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Also, I am not surprised that watercooling is overkill. The SCv2's perform fine with just air cooling unless you really need optimal performance in hot summer weather.
I do regret that I don't have advice yet on protected cable routing to the accessory charging port. The units as mounted were spares and set up so I could move the bags off the bike next to the port and hook them up dynamically. I practiced this but wound up using my tank charger (SCv1 connected through the controller battery-side terminals) primarily and didn't have enough multi-plug opportunities for the v2 units, at least on this trip.
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Brian, nice work on the bike. The thing that most catches my eye is the tank pad...I need one! My kevlar jacket really rubs my tank raw. Where did you get that?
Water cooling of electronics is, in my opinion, pretty hard to justify. Let's be clear that water doesn't actually do any cooling (except in the rare case it's allowed to evaporate and carry some heat off that way), it just moves heat from one place to another. For instance, in an ICE, the coolant just moves heat from the engine head/block area to the radiator. That has advantages and disadvantages, with the primary advantage being the opportunity to put a thermostat inline so the engine runs at a much more consistent temperature. In terms of sheer cooling power, an air-cooled engine often is less affected by hot weather than a water-cooled engine! Water-cooling does give the opportunity to use a huge radiator so there's lots of surface area to dump heat, but in the end the same amount of heat still has to wind up in the atmosphere. It's the shedding of heat into the atmosphere that's the usual bottleneck.
Edit: I should add that water does have a very high heat capacity, so it can absorb a ton of heat without the temperature rising too much. Drag racing engines have a couple of quarts of water in each head which isn't circulated at all, it just absorbs enough heat to keep the head from overheating during one burnout/race down the track. Doctorbass has pointed out that since our chargers only run for a fairly short period of time, that might be all that's needed to control the heat it generates.
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Brian, nice work on the bike. The thing that most catches my eye is the tank pad...I need one! My kevlar jacket really rubs my tank raw. Where did you get that?
Those are Zero’s own TechSpec tank grips, which have been available for almost a year.
S/SR: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_2&products_id=240
DS/DSR: http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=15_2&products_id=241
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looking at the pictures your tank center piece seems to be swollen/forced up, i thought the scv1 was made to fit neatly under the tank cover (if that's what you have under there)
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looking at the pictures your tank center piece seems to be swollen/forced up, i thought the scv1 was made to fit neatly under the tank cover (if that's what you have under there)
My DS tank is a custom setup. I split the plastic centerpiece from my original tank, then took a clean centerpiece and just physically joined them without performing plastic welding like the factory does. So I can pull off the centerpiece any time I like to ventilate the charger or (more commonly) check the wiring for chafing and possibly debug the controller box. I also leave the rear retaining bolts for the tank plastics removed so I can pull all three pieces apart and re-arrange them or work on them without removing the seat.
I can't stand removing the seat on my Zero, and it's worse now that I'm supporting a lot of cargo on a multi-point system partly using upgraded seat bolts. I never want to torque or remove those seat bolts if I can help it. I hope to get to a quick-release latch soon, in my oh-so-copious free time. I use the DigiNow dongle to reprogram the MBB, and I have a self-resetting 15A fuse for my accessories circuit in case that goes while I'm out traveling and can't be bothered to remove the seat.
So, in short, this is just a symptom of having engineering test optimizations.
It's true that the DS tank offers very little clearance around the retaining bracket for the SCv1 (or the Power Tank for that matter), but that doesn't result in swelling.
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Putting even 15lbs for 2 units at 6.6kW in the top case was never a good idea.
For comparison, I’ll show my tail structure built from Happy Trails SU racks and an aluminum box structure:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171026/50ca5462449f22726a35ccdd4928b598.jpg)
This is extremely sturdy and distributes the load of a lot of luggage around all mounting points.
On my outbound trip leg (850 miles from SF to Seattle), the 2 SCv2 units sat cushioned in a duffle bag on the passenger seat ahead of the box.
This made the riding dynamics worse, by making the bike swing with tail momentum when changing lean angle, and pulling the Cg back. I had a much better time on the inbound leg after I bought Tank panniers and strap mounted them over and around the battery compartment.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171026/ad8e8d3d2d52125a0aa72e75f3ca6bcc.jpg)
These happen to be a new Touratech product but probably have some existing equivalents. The point is that once fastened properly, each case held one v2 unit comfortably against the drop bars, and riding dynamics were much better.
So, this is what I suggest and I strongly recommend against further tail installs of chargers.
*moderator edit* added width to img tags
You make a good point, I've ridden with al the components in the case and tight corners were something I had to do gentle, although it was do-able. Might also be that my riding skill had to warm up a bit after being bikeless since the summer.
I can't squeeze the SC's between my fairing, the current idea is to put them in panniers on the side, 2 units on each side. This should lower the centre of gravity a lot and distribute the weight more evenly.
Brian, nice work on the bike. The thing that most catches my eye is the tank pad...I need one! My kevlar jacket really rubs my tank raw. Where did you get that?
Water cooling of electronics is, in my opinion, pretty hard to justify. Let's be clear that water doesn't actually do any cooling (except in the rare case it's allowed to evaporate and carry some heat off that way), it just moves heat from one place to another. For instance, in an ICE, the coolant just moves heat from the engine head/block area to the radiator. That has advantages and disadvantages, with the primary advantage being the opportunity to put a thermostat inline so the engine runs at a much more consistent temperature. In terms of sheer cooling power, an air-cooled engine often is less affected by hot weather than a water-cooled engine! Water-cooling does give the opportunity to use a huge radiator so there's lots of surface area to dump heat, but in the end the same amount of heat still has to wind up in the atmosphere. It's the shedding of heat into the atmosphere that's the usual bottleneck.
Edit: I should add that water does have a very high heat capacity, so it can absorb a ton of heat without the temperature rising too much. Drag racing engines have a couple of quarts of water in each head which isn't circulated at all, it just absorbs enough heat to keep the head from overheating during one burnout/race down the track. Doctorbass has pointed out that since our chargers only run for a fairly short period of time, that might be all that's needed to control the heat it generates.
Yes water cooling is an edge case, but since I wanted to charge pretty much daily in all weather conditions I chose it so I could charge with the top case closed.
Aaand now I have moved an can pretty much walk to my work ::)
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Small update: Had a talk with Brandon/Electric Cowboy and retrofitting air cooling is possible.
I also had a chat with the folks at http://www.stahlkoffer.com/ and they're interested in making bespoke double bottom panniers to fit everything. I've saw their products before, really good stuff and highly adaptable.