ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: NEW2elec on November 30, 2016, 08:43:37 PM
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Will it be extended? Who knows but it is a factor for anyone on the fence. I know there are still some 15s and plenty of 16s that are already discounted adding the 10% credit puts them mostly inline with with some of their gas bike competitors.
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Will it be extended? Who knows but it is a factor for anyone on the fence. I know there are still some 15s and plenty of 16s that are already discounted adding the 10% credit puts them mostly inline with with some of their gas bike competitors.
I heard that the federal budget would likely be "rolled over" to sometime early next year. Does the current IRS law specifically say that the motorcycle EV credit actually expire on 12/31? If that date is not spelled out in the law then the EV credit might actually continue into 2017, at least until it is killed off by Congress and Trump - both of whom are not big fans of electric propulsion. (I am not too sure how they feel about wood-burning steam power, though. ::) )
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Zero's got it posted on their Facebook page so I guess at least they feel it may go away.
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Zero's got it posted on their Facebook page so I guess at least they feel it may go away.
I think they are just covering their bases just in case Congress kills off the IRS credit for EVs. The way politics are going right now you don't dare bet on anything happening - other than some nutty news every day. If Congress shuts their eyes and allows the current budget laws to just continue for a few more months (as is predicted by the pundits), the EV credit may continue until someone decides to attack it next year. But it is also possible that Congress will have so much on their plate then that fooling with the EV credit will be the last thing on their minds. ;) Anyway that is my prediction. :)
BTW, I heard on the national news that Trump and Romney were eating frog legs in front of the public yesterday. ::)
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I'm not a tax lawyer, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. That being said, my understanding is that the tax credit automatically expires at the end of the year and it is not a situation where if Congress does nothing then the tax credit will continue. New legislation would have to be passed next year to continue it. Since the starting point of new legislation is often old legislation, it's entirely possible that it will continue. It's also entirely possible that it will get the axe. This was one of the many factors that pushed me over the edge into becoming a happy 2016 Zero owner.
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I think everything you can assume about the US federal government is now forfeit until further notice.
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anyone know what would happen if i upgraded my 2016 to a 17? i received my tax credit this year for my 16
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anyone know what would happen if i upgraded my 2016 to a 17? i received my tax credit this year for my 16
So with 2 separate purchases in one year I'm not sure, but I would guess it might cap at $25,000 that is eligible for the 10% credit. How much was your 2016? I would take $25,000 and subtract that to start, but ask a tax attorney, perhaps 2 separate purchases resets it. Not sure. But if you already got your credit, you must have done it on your 2016 taxes so paid for it before Jan 1, 2016, correct? I think you're in the clear as long as you get it before 12/31/16 to start over again
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yes i purchased it in in 2015 and did it on my 2016 taxes. I got around 1600 back i believe.
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Damn.. I found the tax code and confirmed this expires. Ugg
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Damn.. I found the tax code and confirmed this expires. Ugg
Well, that sucks! :( I don't suppose that the Republican-controlled Congress is going to continue funding the EV credit for any vehicles next year. If I recall correctly, they were the ones that killed off the 2014 electric motorcycle credit for that year - which fortunately I was able to receive because the IRS hadn't updated their computerized EV credit form before I submitted my credit request in January 2015. Gotcha! ;D
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yes i purchased it in in 2015 and did it on my 2016 taxes. I got around 1600 back i believe.
So you are good to get it again. And I was wrong above anyway its not $25000 max, its 10% of $75000 anyway. But yes it looks like it will expire in 30 days and probably never return is my guess. I'd say do it if you can.
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Got an email from Zero stating that the 30% credit for "off board chargers" will expire as well so any of you guys thinking about juice boxes or Bosch or Tesla wall chargers for your house may want to ask Santa for one.
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Trump's on the right track to stop thieves like our friend Elon Musk who made the tax payers finance his shitty Telsa and now sells direct to screw each state out of tax money. I love watching his rockets blow up!
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How does selling direct screw states out of tax money?
The state I live in requires payment of the sales tax when registering the vehicle at the DMV.
I think with a populist president that has come out against the theory of AGW, and a two-chamber congress of the same political party, that EV subsidies will be the least of things on the chopping block. Expect coal plants to make a comeback with a vengeance, also.
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I knew the EV tax credit was not going to be around too much longer. Bought both a new Chevrolet Volt and Zero SR this Fall. Glad to get this in before they go away.
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What does tax credit mean? When I bought my 2016 s, it qualifyed for a $1400 tax credit. Does that mean I get $1400 back? Someone told me it would be $1400 off of your gross income.
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What does tax credit mean? When I bought my 2016 s, it qualifyed for a $1400 tax credit. Does that mean I get $1400 back? Someone told me it would be $1400 off of your gross income.
You get to deduct $1400 off of your income tax "bill". If your income tax liability is less than $1400, you will get an official government check some day from the Treasury Department. :)
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A tax credit is just like paying into your federal taxes and like said above, pays you tax liability. Any excess you get as a tax refund. For me, I get $7500 for my new Chevrolet Volt, $1596 for the new Zero SR, and $600 for the Charge Tank. A total of $9696 back. That nearly pays for 1/2 my new Zero!
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It's also worth checking with your state. In MD, for example, the money for the state credit ended in September this year - they are limited to a certain amount and when that is reached, folks who did not claim it in time are out of luck. For MD that's a nice sum - something like $125 per kW of battery, up to $3,000 I think, and that's in addition to the federal credit (so for a 13kW Zero, that's just over $1,600).
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I heard on the news yesterday that Chevy is loosing $9000 on every Bolt that they sell. Having the EV credit expire is definitely not going to help auto manufacturers meet California's zero-pollution sales requirements for new vehicles and is really going to put a crimp on Zero's sales in the future. :( If vehicle manufacturers are loosing money on every electric vehicle that they sell just to keep regulators happy, how long can that continue? The only thing that can really give the industry a boost is if oil prices go sky-high and there is no indication that will happen any time soon. ???
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1) the federal tax credit is written with December 31, 2016 as the end date. It does not roll over because in government land, budget rollover simply means they plan to spend the same amount of money, they don't plan to get more/less on the income side (well, they do, they just don't write it down until later)
2) GM has already announced plans to produce 30,000 Bolts for the year. No matter what you think they get in compliance, $270 million is a steep price for it, and I think that number ($9000 loss per) is way too high. There would be much cheaper ways to get there than to produce that many cars at that kind of loss.
And, if this was just a loss leader compliance car, GM wouldn't have bothered to produce anything that would win any awards, which the Bolt seems to keep doing.
GM's commitment to electric in general can be questioned with their lack of support for charging networks, but I do think they made a decent car to sell in a niche (for them) with a decent profit, because the battery/motor/electronics package was sourced outside, and isn't necessarily limited to GM's success with the Bolt.
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How does selling direct screw states out of tax money?
The state I live in requires payment of the sales tax when registering the vehicle at the DMV.
I think with a populist president that has come out against the theory of AGW, and a two-chamber congress of the same political party, that EV subsidies will be the least of things on the chopping block. Expect coal plants to make a comeback with a vengeance, also.
I so wish that Zero would loosen up on their dealer bullshit. Why do I have to order everything to a cost-adding dealer, just let met order on the site and send it to my house.
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+1 Erasmo
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Not going to happen. Remember dealers are a business and the goal is to make money. Why would any motorcycle dealer want to sell Zero if they can't make any money from the brand? Obviously any electric motorcycle requires far less maint than an ICE motorcycle so very little money to be made from the service department on Zero motorcycles. By Zero only selling parts and accessories through their dealers it is a way to help a dealer make money from the brand. Remember Zero tried the direct sales approach and that didn't work out so well for them.
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I so wish that Zero would loosen up on their dealer bullshit. Why do I have to order everything to a cost-adding dealer, just let met order on the site and send it to my house.
The current system is pretty easy. I ordered my drop bars on Zero's website, dealer contacted me for details, they charged my credit card - MSRP plus tax and reasonable shipping, and it arrived at my door. Of course, this is also a dealer that just charges MSRP (no extras) for new bikes, and charged me no extra fees for my used FX. No delivery, prep, assembly, etc.
Without the dealer, Zero would probably have to create an entire customer service department. I'd rather call my local dealer with questions than some guy in India reading from a computer script.
And do motorcycle dealers adhere to the same laws as car dealers? http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/01/19/laws-protecting-auto-franchises-are-bad-for-consumers-and-innovation (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/01/19/laws-protecting-auto-franchises-are-bad-for-consumers-and-innovation)
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By Selling direct, Musk is excluding or should I say screwing us from all local and state taxes that every other dealership has to pay. That is why Tesla is only sold in certain states because they have been banned in many areas.
This is a nice payback for all "Our" tax credit monies the US put into building the Tesla.
Bottom line Elon Musk is a crook and the Tesla is nothing but an over-priced Ford Taurus with with an electric motor and "7000" lap top computer batteries.
https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/tesla-motors-us-sales/ (https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/tesla-motors-us-sales/)
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By Selling direct, Musk is excluding or should I say screwing us from all local and state taxes that every other dealership has to pay. That is why Tesla is only sold in certain states because they have been banned in my areas.
This is a nice payback for all "Our" tax credit monies the US put into building the Tesla.
Bottom line Elon Musk is a crook and the Tesla is nothing but an over-priced Ford Taurus with with an electric motor and "7000" lap top computer batteries.
https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/tesla-motors-us-sales/ (https://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/tesla-motors-us-sales/)
In Colorado we pay taxes when we register the car, every year. Most states that have a "regular" sales tax require consumers to pay a use tax on out of state purchases. If you don't pay, YOU are ripping off the taxpayers, not Elon. Besides, the customer pays the taxes, not the dealer. Stealers tack on plenty of additional fees to more than cover every expense and then some. Are you a car dealer? Defending your system? Why do you have the right to tell me what I'm allowed to buy? If your product is so superior why do you need the government's help? You and your government protected monopoly...
https://youtu.be/uMWmYJOa-BM
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You have your wires totally crossed - I suggest you research it further than make bold statements.
Car dealers make money which they pay local state and federal taxes - is it fair to plop a Tesla dealer next to a GM dealer who is paying taxes on every car he sells in his state and Elon ships the car from another location avoiding local state taxes where the car is sold.
In addition to his gimmick in avoiding state taxes, when this leach decided to build his big Giga battery factory, he had the balls to again ask the US taxpayers (Us) again for 10% of the 5 billion cost to build his factory.
Trump will stomp this blood sucker off the map - its companies like Tesla that is killing the taxpayers and scamming our money.
Regards
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You have your wires totally crossed - I suggest you research it further than make bold statements.
Car dealers make money which they pay local state and federal taxes - is it fair to plop a Tesla dealer next to a GM dealer who is paying taxes on every car he sells in his state and Elon ships the car from another location avoiding local state taxes where the car is sold.
In addition to his gimmick in avoiding state taxes, when this leach decided to build his big Giga battery factory, he had the balls to again ask the US taxpayers (Us) again for 10% of the 5 billion cost to build his factory.
Trump will stomp this blood sucker off the map - its companies like Tesla that is killing the taxpayers and scamming our money.
Regards
How about allowing him to plop down a dealership and pay these taxes? Besides, do you really think he's going after your customer base? How many buyers are trying to decide between a Malibu or a Model S? (Knowing the Big Three make their money on trucks anyway.) How about comparing apples to apples? Look what the Japanese (and now Koreans) have done in a few short decades despite the disadvantage the pro-monopoly laws put upon them. Besides, if there's some special "dealer tax" you're paying above and beyond sales taxes, you(r industry) made your bed by making that deal with the government in the first place. If you're talking about the costs of "brick-and-mortar", is Amazon also evil and unfair? If you're a true capitalist, put on your big boy pants and COMPETE without crying to the government for help.
(Did you even watch the Adam Runs Everything clip? Wonder why so many people hate car dealers and would just love for someone like Musk to put you all out of business?)
Here's an idea, why don't you sell Teslas next to your GMs if they're such a threat to your business? I never saw a bookstore crying that a particular author or publisher was putting them out of business. If the books are hot, they stock them.
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OK again my advise to you is study up - you're dead wrong and standing up for a crook who manages to twist laws designed to help electric companies to his greedy own wealth. This is not a place for me to educate you on EV thieves, so this is my last post since its off topic from the OP's original topic.
Best Regards - Mike
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By Selling direct, Musk...
FYI, this is an electric motorcycle forum (check the name). If you want to discuss electric cars, please do so on an electric car forum. Cheers!
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Well, that got super weird in short order.
The dealership model is maybe not the best way of sales and support for Zero Motorcycles, but I've yet to hear anyone suggest a reasonable alternative that can be achieved with the available resources. Additionally no one has come forward to offer millions of dollars of their personal wealth to fund pivot of Zero Motorcycles towards some other more competitive sales and support model.
US tax credits for alternative energy vehicles did their job, now it's time for them to expire. This is good for EV manufacturers who benefited from an uptick in vehicle sales while they design new more fully featured models at a price competitive to other EV manufacturers. There's also now an EV market that largely doesn't care what is the price of a barrel of oil, and so the subsidy serves only to skew the advertised sales pricing towards people who can't afford this stuff anyways. You're either going to buy the motorcycle or you're not.
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DON'T FEED THE TROLLS
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