ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
General Category => Pics and Vids => Topic started by: mistasam on May 30, 2016, 05:02:06 AM
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My attempts to break 4 seconds yesterday... still haven't been able to do it. Any tips?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iBjLPGf1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iBjLPGf1s)
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Sam, I am almost convinced the advertised 3.3 to 100KPH can only be achieved in a Vacuum!
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Sam, I am almost convinced the advertised 3.3 to 100KPH can only be achieved in a Vacuum!
Yea, me too. Is that how they do it? No rider weighing it down, strapped to a dyno?
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Or the performance claim may be calculated from a mathematical formula. ???
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You mean actual speed - 1 second [emoji12] - my DSR arrives in NZ in three weeks, our combined weight should mean I will be lucky to get to 100 KPH in much under 5 (insert unit of measure here)! Good for tying Sam - you might go quicker in a faster road - it is 40 Max on that road from memory - awesome road mind. Try going down the Rimutakas - gravity could be your friend here!
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Haha! Good idea about going downhill ;D
I of course did this while the road was closed off for professional vehicle testing yadda yadda nothing illegal here.
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The sound of your motor is really strange.. it seem to have the sound that mine is doing when there is alot of humidity or rain.. and normally i notice a little loss of power when it ohappen.... maybe you could retry on a different route?
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The sound of your motor is really strange.. it seem to have the sound that mine is doing when there is alot of humidity or rain.. and normally i notice a little loss of power when it ohappen.... maybe you could retry on a different route?
Really?? Do you think something is wrong with my motor? That's the kind of sound I've had since I bought it... so maybe something is up?
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Difficult to tell what devices you are using to measure your runs.
If using speedometer and stop watch, might be some lag.
Best way is at an actual track with timing equipment. Most
tracks don't really give zero to 60 times, just 60' times, then,
times at 330', 660' 100' etc. MPH at 1/8th mile mark.
Not sure if RADAR gun would be much more accurate.
As close as yours are showing, allowing for lag time,
and time to catch up, I would imagine that you are
probably already there. There are performance meters
that are designed to test acceleration that can be had
for pretty cheap. I used to use a G Tech pro years ago,
but, they have gotten a little pricey. Here is a link to
a Car and Driver article that tests the meters.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/do-inexpensive-performance-meters-work-feature (http://www.caranddriver.com/features/do-inexpensive-performance-meters-work-feature)
Good Luck.
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I used a timer in Adobe Premiere lined up with the video, so it should be accurate. I have a feeling something else is going on.
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My attempts to break 4 seconds yesterday... still haven't been able to do it. Any tips?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iBjLPGf1s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7iBjLPGf1s)
I remember having read that the 3.3s for 0 to 60 was done with a rider of 6? kg...
First 60MPH is 96,56 km/h =26,82 m/s, going to 100km/h will take longer time.
lets say they used a 62 kg driver for that giving a total weight of 250kg
this gives a total Energy (not counting drag) spent of E=(mv^2)/2 = (250* 26,82^2)/2 = 89,93kJ
As far as i know the bike does lash out more power at 100km/h compared to lower speeds, so that may cancel some of the power wasted on drag- which lets us assumeclose to constant power spent on acceleration. Given linear power output we have 89,93kJ/3,3s = 27,25kW power
To reach 100km/h you would need to be 45kg (not counting the extra drag for going faster) to reach 100km/h using the same energy.
a typical rider may weigh 82kg giving a total weight of 270 kg => v(3,3s) = 92,91 km/h
at 100kmh he+bike will have 104,17kJ Energy.
Thus it will take approximately 104,17kJ/27,25kW = 3,8s to reach 100 km/h for an 82 kg rider.
Now the question is how much difference is there between the total weight of the bike+rider used for achieving 3.3s on 0 to 60 and your bike with you on it?
Are you able to cause less drag than was present at the 3.3s attempt?
...
slightly above 4s for 0 to 100 seems quite nice in my opinion ;)
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Wow, thanks for the detailed breakdown, yhafting! I didn't even think about how big of a difference 100km/h was to 60mph. Next time I'll just change it to miles for a this test, just to make it easier. I weigh 70-75kg so it should be close. And yea, you're right about 4 seconds being fast. Insanely fast!
My motor is definitely making some strange noises though, so I'll get it checked out before doing another run. Thanks again everybody!
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You could always use a CAN to bluetooth-serial adapter and log the runs with your smartphone.
That would yield more accurate MPH numbers than the gauge or GPS and video.
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There are several drag-racing apps for smartphones which use GPS, the phone's g-meter, and perhaps other sources to get pretty good accuracy. I don't know specifically how accurate but I know the drag racers use them and are pretty happy with them. I use "torque" in my car and it has several timer-type functions, though I've never had any interest in timing my 180,000 mile old 528i.
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I have used Harry's Lap Timer, integrates video, GPS and OBD data with great results...really good when in the track given a comprehensive database of tracks..
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i know, kind of older post, but not a problem, right? :P
Did you check your motor? because mine sounds the same an i think that is normal.
But i also am a bit disappointed of the 0-100 times. when they write 3.3s and its 4s, thats not kind :/ i hoped to bust more liter bikes to 100km/h :-P My KTM 990SD destroyes the Zero and is also rated arround 3.3s to 100km/h.
Dont get me wrong. The bike is fast and makes fun, but they lie with those numbers and i don't like that. Maybe they did that with a light guy, hill down, with strong backwind
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We see great numbers from manufacturers all the time. Then, we try to match them to no avail.
I used to drag race and was able to beat posted numbers after some fine tuning.
The manufacturers don't take a bike off of the showroom floor and go to the track, they
use specially prepared units. While the units are individually prepared, they are still considered
stock. Tricks that used to be used were just enough fuel to make the pass, mirrors removed.
ULTRA light rider etc. Not exactly sure what you could do to an electric bike other than to make
sure that it is at the maximum limit of performance specifications. In the early 1980s, Kawasaki
was pushing their GPz 750 as the first STOCK 750 to go into the 11 second bracket. One of the
magazines tore a test bike down to find out that the head was ported. Kawasaki's answer was
that they were all going to come with ported heads, so, a lucky few first adopters got bikes
with ported heads. We know that the Zeros are capable of this level of performance with
some massaging, just how much was done to the bikes to make the numbers would be the question.
Weight is probably the biggest factor. We used to figure 10 lbs. would equal 1 hp. If they used a 125 lb.
rider, and you are 225 lb. you would be at a 10 hp. handicap to the lighter rider.
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Never having seen a Zero video showing that level of acceleration, it is my personal opinion that Zero calculates their advertised performance numbers based upon a computer program that takes into account the bike's claimed weight, power, torque and probably other things - other than wind resistance. ;)
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Yep, I think we've all agreed that those figures are just calculations, as well as a possible motor dyno run, but not from real life. Still insane acceleration though ;D
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How much do you folks weigh? Perhaps Zero tests them with well trained children. I'm only partly kidding, since I'm probably closer to 120 lbs than 125, and I'm amazed at the acceleration that I get with my 2013 S. There's a reason that thoroughbred jockeys tend to be small, and a Zero weighs about half as much as a horse. Just do the math and you'll see the tremendous advantage that a small person has.
Edit: I see that Sam did mention his weight further back in the thread. Would it be mathematically possible to figure out the required weight of a rider to achieve the 3.3 seconds?
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I am about 170ibs, that would be 4.5hp more that with 125ibs. No way 4.5hp can make a huge difference. this is 6.6% Power difference. I know u cant calculate like that, but this 6,6% in time would resolute to 3.75s when i take 4s as base.
I once draged hill down (not very steep) and could not feel some sort of noticeble difference. Hill down my wheigt gets less relevant.
Whats interesting though, on their website they say that the SR with powertank (additional 20kg/44ib) makes 3.9s. So thats a huge difference, and i cant believe that about 1/20 of the wheight can make such a big difference with all that torque. I think they calculated the time fully without a driver ;D
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Motorcycle Consumer News recently stated that they could no longer perform top speed performance and acceleration testing on public highways (which is what they had been doing for years as they couldn't afford to rent a track or private airfield). After getting caught during a top speed run by the county sheriff at their secret low-traffic desert highway, they gave up on real-world testing and are now using a specialized computer program to determine top speed and acceleration numbers for the bikes that they test. They say that the computer program gives very accurate and comparable results (between vehicles being tested from one month to the next) and of course likely uses a standardized environmental (air pressure, temperature, no wind, etc.) criteria to achieve the calculated performance results. (My guess is that you have to input your rider's weight and perhaps height.)
I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Zero, as well as other small vehicle manufacturers, use a similar computer programs, with input from a dyno, to determine performance so that they don't have to perform this testing on public roads.
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AutoBlog's take on 0-60 times and why they don't mean much. They don't even mention the stoplight drag race, which matters to me.
http://www.autoblog.com/2016/09/02/zero-0-60-mph-performance-is-overrated/ (http://www.autoblog.com/2016/09/02/zero-0-60-mph-performance-is-overrated/)
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I did some measurements yesterday. With 52% battery:
0-60mhp: 4.4s
0-100km/h: 4.5s
4 runs, all arround there.
Today with 88% Battery:
0-60mph: 4.25s
0-100km/h: 4.35s
What i have seen is, that with 52% the torque decreases alredy after 80km/h. With 90-88% the tourque began decrease after about 95km/h. So this is why i got a little better time.
For 3.3s we would need a good 20-30% more power, so i dont understand how they can rate the bike at 3.3s. maybe they think that it's measured without person on top ;D
nevertheless, bikes makes a lot of fun and alredy drove almost as much in 2 weeks than with my ICE-Bike last year 8)
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With an ICE you could run it low on oil, or with a near empty fuel tank to yield better acceleration times.
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2 Guys on the facebook Zero Motorcycles Owners Group measured their times with the new 17 DSR. 0-60 in 2.9-3.1s. Thats really impressive if this is true! But i told myself, the ealriest i would upgrade would be 2018 ;D
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Hey guys,
Soon to be a DSR owner.
I remember that the acceleration times where posted on Zero's website, (or maybe I am imagining it) not anymore though, huh?
But I think I remember that the 3.3s to 60 was posted for the FX bikes only and not the SR.
The SR was always a bit slower due to higher weight.
I want to say 3.9s as far as my old brain remembers.
The 2017 R models now with the 775Amp controller and 70hp output, might be getting closer to the high 3 second range now though.
Where do you find the acceleration specs posted anyway?
By the way, I shiver to even think about "abusing" my brand new bike for tests like this, but I know myself better, I'll probably will do max accelation fairly soon out of the box...... hahahahah...
Rider7
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What is abusing about accelerating full power with an electric bike!?!? Its natural!
Did you get the 17 model?
You still can check out the 2016 models on zeromotorcycles.com. The SR was ratet as the fastest bike at 3.3. Fx was slower and fxs 3.9 when i remember correctly
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@Rider7 it's a wise idea to keep your bike in Eco mode while you adjust to the bike's quirks (or lack thereof) in the first month you ride it. Also this is a good time to break in the new tires, and especially check belt tension with a gauge every few rides (it has a tendancy to swell and become over-tight the first 3k miles). Eco or Sport modes are identical in regards to initial and ongoing maintenance.
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What is abusing about accelerating full power with an electric bike!?!? Its natural!
Did you get the 17 model?
You still can check out the 2016 models on zeromotorcycles.com. The SR was ratet as the fastest bike at 3.3. Fx was slower and fxs 3.9 when i remember correctly
Kashography,
Hahah..... I am sure I'll be doing the same thing I have been doing for 32 years, treat it like the red lights go out.
You cannot speed without paying the consequences here in the states, but there is no law against holeshot starts, and especially when it's silent :)
Yes, I am getting the 2017 model.
I'll go back and check the '16 models and compare.
Oliver
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@Rider7 it's a wise idea to keep your bike in Eco mode while you adjust to the bike's quirks (or lack thereof) in the first month you ride it. Also this is a good time to break in the new tires, and especially check belt tension with a gauge every few rides (it has a tendancy to swell and become over-tight the first 3k miles). Eco or Sport modes are identical in regards to initial and ongoing maintenance.
Shadow,
Thanks for the tips. I am sure I'll be watching out for wheelspin like on my ZRX-1200R I just sold. That beast spun second gear dry asphalt out of turns. It was lovey, but my gosh, how much steel do I have to through around a turn to have found?
My second bike is a Suzuki GS-500, and it comes close to motocross fun with that light weight when you rev it. You can throw it with the tail hanging out like a dirt bike. It weighs 375.
So the DSR at 419 will be just a bit more inertia ish...
I cannot wait to call the power bomb DSR mine in a week or so.
But I will also break it in like you suggested since this is the first brand new vehicle ever in my life and why stress it out without beaking it in.
I'll have this bike for 5 years at least if not longer.
I test rode all of the bikes at the AF-1 Racing dealership in Austin and was surprised that I only once wanted to phantom shift. But I am sure I'll be clutching and shifting accidentally as soon as I ride it every day.
Thanks for the belt tip. Yes, I was planning on getting the belt tension gauge.
I am a bike mechanic and think I have a good feel for things, but then again, the gauge takes any doubt out of the equation.
I am so looking forward to not changing oil, adjusting valves, synching carbs, let alone rebuilding them.
Gosh, I am so over these stinky gas guzzlers.
Thanks for your input Shadow.
Oliver
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In Vegas the cops can give you a ticket for as little as just revving your engine. This also went for
" hole shot " starts. It is an " exhibition of power " ticket. Violation Code 1009. Similar penalty to reckless driving.
First offense is over $200. I know that the SOUND part doesn't apply to the Zeros, but, it is still something to
check out in your area before getting throttle happy.
I got a ticket in California about 30 years ago on a turbocharged motorcycle. The citation was
for: SPEED CONTEST. APPROXIMATE SPEED 20 MPH.
I contested the ticket and eventually it was dismissed.
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In Vegas the cops can give you a ticket for as little as just revving your engine. This also went for
" hole shot " starts. It is an " exhibition of power " ticket. Violation Code 1009. Similar penalty to reckless driving.
First offense is over $200. I know that the SOUND part doesn't apply to the Zeros, but, it is still something to
check out in your area before getting throttle happy.
I got a ticket in California about 30 years ago on a turbocharged motorcycle. The citation was
for: SPEED CONTEST. APPROXIMATE SPEED 20 MPH.
I contested the ticket and eventually it was dismissed.
KrazyEd,
Thanks, I never imagined that.
But one good thing is that the zeros are coming off the line so stealthily.
So it doesn't alert everybody around you including cops that you're going full throttle.
But I appreciate the heads up, I'll scan as always before having fun.
By the way, I am actually not condoning irresponsible riding like I see it done often by crotch rocket riders.
But I see nothing wrong with clearing out traffic either from still stand or moving traffic if I still keep my relative position and speed in a range where I still always habe an out.
It's been working out for 32 years so far for me.
Thanks again.
Rider7
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I will check for my SR 2017 with powertank soon.
I have the Vbox GPS tool that measure at very high accuracy all performance data.
Doc