ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Brammo Forum => Topic started by: xmjsilverx on December 05, 2015, 09:30:32 AM
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So Victory buys Brammo, waits a year and then releases what appears to me as the exact same empulse that was sold for at least $1000 less than the $20000 Victory. I thoughts Brammos were neat but after finding the Zero SR I couldn't even consider the Brammo anymore. I was excited when Victory bought Brammo and thought they would improve the great start of an electric bike. Maybe I am missing something but all that happened was the bike got more expensive and no updates to a bike that was out in 2013.
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That's basically the deal. Personally I'm hoping they let their engineers do some fun stuff for next year.
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Assuming that Victory really wants to market an electric motorcycle and not just unload recently acquired Brammo parts, I would think that it would take them a couple of years to design, order parts and set up a factory and distribution network to manufacture a completely new model - perhaps one without the unnecessary 6-speed gear box and clutch. ???
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So Victory buys Brammo, waits a year and then releases what appears to me as the exact same empulse that was sold for at least $1000 less than the $20000 Victory. I thoughts Brammos were neat but after finding the Zero SR I couldn't even consider the Brammo anymore. I was excited when Victory bought Brammo and thought they would improve the great start of an electric bike. Maybe I am missing something but all that happened was the bike got more expensive and no updates to a bike that was out in 2013.
"No updates" isn't really fair. The Victory Empulse has a a slightly higher capacity battery - 100Ah up from 90Ah, slightly faster onboard charger (3.8 kW up from 3.3 kW), narrower rear wheel/tire for improved handling (180 width on a 54 hp bike was always silly), improved rear cush drive, and most importantly Bold New Graphics.
Zero has IMO left Brammo - or more specifically the Empulse as a product - behind. I think the ZF13 S with a Charge Tank is a better bike in almost every way, even ignoring the $4000 price difference - but the Victory bike in theory has an established support network, and a six speed gearbox. That will bring in some riders that would never have considered Zero - or any other electric motorcycle - and that can only be a good thing.
I hope Victory does continue development, and that this is the only the very beginning of a line of well-supported motorcycles that continue to draw interest from "traditional" riders.
Edit: clarify
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Zero has IMO left Brammo behind.
I think most of us would agree; that's why it's so disappointing to see (virtually) no movement since a much larger, more resourced company bought Brammo. They clearly have far more development expertise than Brammo and Zero put together, which was why it's so nice to see one of the big players in the game.
We need to be patient, is all. Even a huge engineering team takes a few years to push through an entire new vehicle design....and I hope none of us are imagining that Victory's going to put their whole design team on the eBike division. Victory bought Brammo as a starting point, nothing more.
I think it'll be interesting to see how many resources Victory does support the eBike division with, and whether the lead Zero has is enough to keep them ahead of the game, and whether they can grow fast enough to stay ahead of Victory in volume. One thing I think we can ALL be sure about is it's going to improve the breed. Like Elon Musk has said, having more players in the game is only going to bring prices down and performance up for everybody.
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There was no Empulse TT on the Victory stand at Motorcycle Live at the NEC. I did ask.
Mind you I was too busy yesterday answering questions on the Zero stand, which was getting a lot on interest from people.
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Polaris is definitely a company that's willing to take risks. Buying Indian, buying GEM from Chrysler, the Slingshot and competing with Harley Davidson are all examples. But their buying Brammo was the equivalent of buying last year's demo model from a dealership. They were about to go out of business, so Polaris could get them for cheap (remember that $12.5M "fundraiser" Brammo had at the same time). The Empulse TT may just be taking advantage of unused stock, and the easiest way to test out demand.
I take Polaris seriously when they hint that they want to make an American sportbike, especially as long as Buell isn't doing anything. They may very well design their own electric, the mythical "Victory Charger", but that will take a few years of development... and that's assuming management green-lights it immediately. It may be several years before we see something more significant from Victory.
I'm also really disappointed with Brammo's battery tech, ironic because that's what they're marketing now. The bigger capacity came from fusing the 4 different battery compartments into 1 compartment, and filling in the empty space. They didn't improve their tech, they just added more cells. On the other hand, Zero's architecture has remained the same since 2013. Their advances have been from working with Farasis and using improved cell chemistry.
http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/brammo/2014-brammo-empulse-r-review-video.html/attachment/080514-2014-brammo-empulse-r-brammo-empulse-cutaway (http://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/brammo/2014-brammo-empulse-r-review-video.html/attachment/080514-2014-brammo-empulse-r-brammo-empulse-cutaway)
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The empulse has only ever used farasis cells , the bump in capacity could be from space gained or larger capacity cells like zero got (25 to 27 ahr bump) i
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Tout to me huge downfall with brammo is 8-9 bms's sounds like a lot of things to go wrong not to mention their zero tt bike had no gears, and their normal bike had a 4 year old motor and clunky tranny :(
Edit: I thought it was an Agni spec was similar, hard to find any info on brammo online now about older models....
Brammofan is correct
New age has no gears sorry. Maybe a overdrive button to reduce hearing once but no need for a transmission just dumb IMO
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Brammo had never used Agni motors. Zero used them at one time, but never Brammo.