ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: xmjsilverx on July 01, 2015, 07:46:03 AM
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Okay so I got the delta q in the mail today and hooked the bike up to the same outlet I always hook it up to and then hooked the delta q up to a different circuit. All seemed well for a while but then the circuit breaker flipped on the on board charger. This is the same outlet I always use and it is a 15 amp and no other loads are running on it besides garage lights. It has done this 3 times now and it always takes about the same amount of time. Is there something I don't understand about the charger setup? Why is the onboard pulling more with the delta q hooked up? On an unrelated note: I got the medium leather jacket and it is way too big for me. The site has said sold out of smalls for a while now. Has anyone contacted Zero about getting a small?
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The onboard charger draws 12.5A
The Delta-Q draws between 9A-10A
There may be another load on the same (15A?) circuit that is adding the additional 2A or 3A to trip the circuit breaker. This happened to me a couple of times (always at a friend's house where I didn't know what else was drawing current on the same circuit).
In my garage I have a 20A circuit and a 15A circuit - if I want to plug the onboard and the Delta-Q in at the same time I can plug the onboard charger into the 20A circuit and the Delta-Q into the 15A circuit.
Since I got the new Delta-Q I have to really be careful as the combination of chargers draws nearly 40A.
I plugged into a J1172 last week, but it had a 32A limit, so I found a separate 120V outlet for one of the Delta-Q chargers (I took this picture last month before I received my third charger).
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I've got to get my own Kill-a-watt. Any suggestions on the right model? And any chance they have a connected version I could monitor via wi-fi or BT?
And with that I'll go and do my own googling - just thought I'd throw it out here...
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Well I think I probably figured it out. The outlet I plugged the delta q in was a gfi and for some reason I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out. Obviously I was a moron because that outlet must be on the same circuit as the onboard charger. I guess I need to run a separate circuit out to the garage. Sorry for wasting your time.
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...I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out. Obviously I was a moron...
I wouldn't say you're a moron. If properly installed (the first device on the circuit -- i.e. closest to the breaker box, and with the "line" and "load" sides properly connected) a GFI should protect all devices on the circuit. Sounds like your GFI isn't properly installed...either it's not the first device on the circuit or the "line" and "load" sides aren't hooked up correctly. I'm and EE and it probably would have taken me a while to figure out too.
Your electrician is the moron. You should find a new one. ;-)
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I've got to get my own Kill-a-watt. Any suggestions on the right model? And any chance they have a connected version I could monitor via wi-fi or BT?
I'm not aware of a connected (wifi or BT) version. If you find one, please let us know.
That said, I have a P4400 and a P4460 (the "EZ").
The 4460 allows you to set a cost per KWh and has persistent storage, so if you lose power, it doesn't reset. It also has a reset button so that you CAN reset it. It's set up to allow you to easily estimate monthly (or weekly, daily, yearly, IIRC) cost of a device plugged into it.
The 4400 does not allow you to set up a cost per KWh, is reset by unplugging it (or interrupting power in some other way), and does not do any computations. Not even KWh consumed per mo/yr/dy/week, as I thought it could. It will keep track of KWh consumed, or course, so you can do the math yourself.
I bought the 4460 first ($27), then bought the 4400 later ($17) because I thought the only differences were the persistent storage and the ability to enter $/KWh. Had I known it also couldn't calculate KWh per (month, day, year, etc), I would have bought another 4460. That said, depending on what you want, the 4400 may be perfect. It's just less useful for estimating consumption over long periods if you don't keep track of when it was last reset.
OH! And something that surprised me (true of both units) is that when you plug one in, it only uses one socket, but blocks access to the other as well (in a 'normal' style US outlet). Doesn't matter which (top or bottom) outlet you use. Worse than a wall-wart in that regard.
Probably more info than you needed or wanted, but since I just went down that path myself, I figured I'd share.
Oh, and btw, thanks to these two devices I know that I use about 9Kwh/day (at the meter) to do my 50 mile round trip commute, or about $20/month. I also know that the mini-split AC I installed in my garage-shop will cost me about $15/mo to leave running all the time with the thermostat set at 80F. (That's the diff between the two units! I know my AC usage in $/month, but my motorcycle usage in KWh/charge up. How do you want to think about it? The 4460 make it easy to do it either way.)
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@JasonS - That's exactly the info I was looking for! I read up for a bit yesterday and it looks like the only consumer connected options that fit my needs are the Belkin WeMo Insight - but those get seriously spotty reviews on Amazon and as such I'm not thinking it'd be good to pull 10a through it.
Looks like the kill-a-watt with NVM is what I'll end up with to track the bike consumption!
thanks again -
Jason
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Very cool stuff guys. Here in Australia I have two primary devices. A WattWatchers monitors house, solar and shed (bike) via wifi to any device, in up to 1sec increments. Then, I have several Efergy Ego load controller / monitors that plug in and do 16A 240v. Also wifi, I can remotely program, control and monitor any outlet. I'm about to add a battery system which will synchronise and save my daily generation for the bike. The energy from my solar is free (system paid off) so I have incidental cost only.
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@nigezero - that system looks like what I was hoping to find. Looks like Wattwatchers builds them for OEM to brand and sell?
I'd settle for a per-circuit accounting if nothing else. Seems like something the local electric could offer as an upgrade.
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...I thought if I hit test and tripped that then all the outlets on that circuit would go out. Obviously I was a moron...
I wouldn't say you're a moron. If properly installed (the first device on the circuit -- i.e. closest to the breaker box, and with the "line" and "load" sides properly connected) a GFI should protect all devices on the circuit. Sounds like your GFI isn't properly installed...either it's not the first device on the circuit or the "line" and "load" sides aren't hooked up correctly. I'm and EE and it probably would have taken me a while to figure out too.
Your electrician is the moron. You should find a new one. ;-)
You should always u
Tail out gfi's. If you use line and load it just creates more issues. You can have a gif trip making all other outlets stop working. If each outlet is tailed out and then connected to the gfi it still protects the house circuit and the gfi is doing its job but none of the line and load issues that shouldn't even be there.... Mother more frustrating than having a bad gfi that tests good trips and resets but won't my power out the load side.
Take the -+ coming in on one side twist them up with short jumpers to the outgoing side and then attach the short jumpers to the gfi
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I have a WEMO wi-fi switch that monitors while charging. It's only 15A, so only good for the slow-charging, but it works with your smart phone and you can turn the outlet on/off remotely:
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I was considering one of those but saw very mixed reviews on Amazon. I'm not interested in their whole line of home automation - just a few of the same socket monitors you're using.
- How long have you been using it?
- Do you need to be on the same network to see the data or does it get pushed to cloud?
Thanks!
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I've been using it for 3 or 4 months without any problems. I set the timer to turn on at midnight and off at 8AM to take advantage of the cheaper electricity rates.
Yes - it works via the 'cloud' - if I'm away from home I can still see the charging status on my phone and turn the outlet on/off - however, sometimes the connection is less reliable when away and I have to try a few times to re-establish a connection to the wi-fi switch.
I have some other WEMO wi-fi switches in the house that turn lights on/off at sunset/sunrise - the automation is cool - and you don't have to buy any 'system' - you can just buy one switch at a time and connect them to your wi-fi network as you get them.
I have had to reset the switches a few times, so I can understand the mixed reviews on Amazon, but I find they are reliable 95% of the time.
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Definitely sounds like it's worth the $50 to give it a try then, thanks for your help!
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My Kill-a-watt caught fire while I had my bike plugged into it. Reading around the EV forums, that isn't uncommon when drawing high current for extended periods of time. I would not recommend any long term or consistent use with it.
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While charging a Zero?! I thought it was pulling less than 10a?
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While charging a Zero?! I thought it was pulling less than 10a?
I think the on-board charger pulls about 12 amps, max.
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My Kill-a-watt caught fire while I had my bike plugged into it. Reading around the EV forums, that isn't uncommon when drawing high current for extended periods of time. I would not recommend any long term or consistent use with it.
Yes, my $19 Kill-o-Watt meter (p4400) stopped working in less than 2 months when used inline while charging my bike...
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I've never tried to charge while using the Kil-o-watt meter - I only used the meter to measure the current, then removed it from the circuit.
I do use the WEMO wi-fi switch every night and have never had any problem with it overheating. It's rated at 1.8 kW - the Zero SR draws 1.4 kW - my Vectrix draws 1.5 - 1.6 kW.
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The Ego is almost identical and I loved the WeMo story, but not available here. It's been very reliable and accessible too, had to reset a few times too. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/13/57efe0075f3cf5e51ceef0feca1c6f07.jpg)
The WattWatchers device is like an Intel inside device that various GUIs are available to use in different ways. I have a monitoring focused App and a Solar/load monitoring app too. It's stunning, world class and 3G compatible too from next month. (http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/13/50c340b52e16a06087ff7fb8306d8694.jpg)
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FYI - I still have my bike plugged into my kill-a-watt on a daily basis (when it's not at the dealer), and so far so good.
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FYI, for what it's worth... I had my new Delta-Q from Zero start popping breakers that were rated 20A & 25A with nothing else running on the circuit.
I also had a light switch stop working, which was wired duplex (i.e. two switches at each end of the garage controlled an overhead light, and you flip the state of either switch to change the on/off state of the light)
I opened up the wall box to replace the switch, and it was wired with lamp cord, not Romex or anything code! Right then I knew it was a bodge job far beyond my meager electrical skills, so I called in an electrician.
I explained the situation and showed him the switch wiring, and he gave me a break on the price because I was trying to make the house safe. He spent a couple hours going "are you f*cking kidding me?" and showing me other bodge jobs by what I assume was the previous owner.
It's a wonder I'm not living in a box next to a pile of ashes.
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That's a bit scary... Are you confident he found all of the bodgery?
I sometimes grimace at the cost of buying the right wiring for the job (when I know I have ample, oh, lamp cord, leftover extension cord scraps, etc.) but it's really worth using the right materials if you're gonna do the job.
I've added an outlet in my garage (in a convenient location for my Zero), replaced the A/C in my garage/shop, and ran a dedicated 220V circuit for my table saw. Oh, and installed a whole-house surge suppressor after a wind storm induced power failure took out my dishwasher, cooktop, some self-amplified speakers, an iPod dock, various CFLs, and a few light socket motion sensors (the kind that are handy in pantries and closets).
Worth the piece of mind to do it (or have it done) right.
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I hope so. We pulled the electrical outlets and switches inside the house, and they looked to be code. It seemed the previous owner got a wiring diagram for duplex switches and had a field day.
There's GFCI outlets in the bathrooms wired to a common reset button in the garage, but that appears to be code. "Sigh, that's the way they did it in '79 when this was built..."
Yes, I am bad at trying to do it all myself, but I do get pro help to do a lot of stuff. They usually have expensive special purpose tools and know tricks of the trade. Like when my toilet started backing up into the tub, the plumber instantly knew to snake down the roof vent.
I saw that lamp cord and thought "yup, THAT'S been dicked over right well, and I can only make it worse."