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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: hippiesparx on May 31, 2015, 09:05:13 AM
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A bit - when you look at the photos you'll see what I mean ;)
I've just spent the weekend bolting two QuiQ chargers to the Zero S.
They're about $700 each in Oz. They're weatherproof. They don't get in the way of your shins when riding but when you stand up you've got to be aware of them. http://enerdrive.com.au/product/deltaq-quiq-battery-charger. (http://enerdrive.com.au/product/deltaq-quiq-battery-charger.) I've got two separate 240V in sockets, one for the standard and one for the two QuiQ. As long as there's a double powerpoint with not much else on the circuit I should be right.
When all three chargers are running they draw 15A @ 240VAC.
The black and white wires from the QuiQ are joined together at the lug with a 10K NTC thermistor between them, to sense the battery temperature. This has to be cut off to fit the Anderson so, even though the thermistor is only going to measure ambient, I've refitted thermistors.
The stock charger needs to be energised to allow the QuiQs to 'see' the battery and start charging. I see Trikester's tip with the resistor, unfortunately after I put waterproof epoxy heatshrink on the Anderson plug.
It took 1hr 40min to throw 45% into the battery. At 90% the Quiqs backed right off, only putting about 1A each into the battery. The onboard charge is still going flat out.
So it's not as quick charging as I was expecting but its a definite improvement.
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Well done. Can see the "solar" influence in the the cable conduits, neat!
I assume you joined the two DC lines from the Quiq chargers into a single SBS75X Anderson connector.
Being IP66 rated versus IP46 for the TC/Elcon chargers is one of the advantages of the Quiq chargers.
You can monitor the battery temperature using the Zero phone app. I believe the BMS will prevent charging if the battery temp gets to 50'C.
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It sounds like the charging times you were hoping for are only available with Elcons. Although the Quik chargers are definitely an improvement. Nice!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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That's very interesting; thanks for this. The "look" factor is interesting, and maybe an official fast charger could look like this. Is the lower cowling removed to make the bracket work? I guess we'd benefit from some details to try this again or try some variations.
I wonder about mounting them at an angle or under a fairing, too, for drag reduction.
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Yep, the lower cowlings have been removed.
I used 6mm acrylic to form the mounting plate, which picks up all the threaded holes in the frame that the cowlings used.
The QuiQs pick up two of the forward threaded holes, which makes for a very firm fit.
The acrylic could have been longer, but this is what I had in the shed.
I'll probably have another go at it and extend the acrylic to the top rear corner to hide the ugliness the lower cowlings usually cover. The AC cables at the rear can then duck in behind the acrylic and disappear.
I'll also move the QuiQ 30mm forward and fabricate a front/side cowling that curves around and covers the front 25mm conduit.
Regarding the charge time, it turns out the fast charging confused the SOC% metering. When I turned the bike on it reset to 100%. It does seem it takes a bit over 1.5 hours to throw 60% into the battery, which will do me.
Adding 10kg forward and below the centre of gravity has taken a lot of the twitchiness out of the cornering. It really does feel much more 'positive' diving in to a corner.
Here's a couple of photos showing a bit more detail.
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Now I get it. You made a boxer charger. ;D
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A bit - when you look at the photos you'll see what I mean ;)
I've just spent the weekend bolting two QuiQ chargers to the Zero S.
.... They don't get in the way of your shins when riding but when you stand up you've got to be aware of them. ...
Just found this, thanks for the write-up! Gives me ideas...
BTW, I also see the SoC confused when charging with my elcon. I see charge rate dropping at 85% and when I unplug and turn off, it pops to 100%. Sometimes. 2014 Zero SR.
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Hello I'm also in Australia and recently purchased a 2016 zero dsr and I'd like to do this modification as well, can I please contact you for information and help in doing so?
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Hey aikirob- lucky man ! A DSR is a sweet bike. FWIW, evtricity has found a much better solution and is building them as we speak here in Sydney. Much cheaper, about 1/4 the weight and size. 8kw will fit (just) under the tank. We're having a group ride and test of several of them on April 2 south of Sydney
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Hey aikirob- lucky man ! A DSR is a sweet bike. FWIW, evtricity has found a much better solution and is building them as we speak here in Sydney. Much cheaper, about 1/4 the weight and size. 8kw will fit (just) under the tank. We're having a group ride and test of several of them on April 2 south of Sydney
Can you tell us more about that? What kind of charging solution are you experimenting with?
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Evtricity has found a fantastic compact commercially made rectifier that can be programmed to do what we need. He's done some clever mods to allow them to be used on Zeros easily - that's it! The Elcons and other chargers used by many owners are just earlier versions of the same tech, Dave just found some better cheaper smaller ones
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Evtricity has found a fantastic compact commercially made rectifier that can be programmed to do what we need. He's done some clever mods to allow them to be used on Zeros easily - that's it! The Elcons and other chargers used by many owners are just earlier versions of the same tech, Dave just found some better cheaper smaller ones
But those are not Eltek Flatpacks? Would love to hear details as soon as you are allowed to talk about it ;-)
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The chargers use a rectifier that is much better than the Eltek Flatpack 2 2000 HE with similar size and weight to the Flatpack S. Paired up they charge to 116V with a
single PCB connector, they have native isolated CAN control, derate gracefully between ambient 55—80C and can be permanently or temporarily AC input controlled for running off limited power circuits or following a J1772 / Mennekes pilot signal. Once we've had the opportunity to test on more Zeros in Australia we'll share here for our Zero friends on this forum.
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Very curious about your charger solution. Can you give us a bit more info, pics or perhaps a sneak preview?
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I did that about 5 years ago, had 4 Delta Q Quiq chargers powered by one J plug (one on each side, one on top, and one underneath the battery) so I could travel from florida to tennessee for the bonnaroo music festival in May 2012 - see picture of some of my friends from the music festival all sitting on the bike (see the Delta Q on the side?)
But in fall 2012 attached 2 2500 watt elcons on the sides (already black) instead of the delta Q's (bottom picture)
It's a perfect place to mount fast chargers and leave the "tank" area for an extra battery so you can have more range and faster charging!
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Very curious about your charger solution. Can you give us a bit more info, pics or perhaps a sneak preview?
Here's a preview of what we're testing for our Zero bikes.
Photo shows six stack => 116V DC, up to 12kW DC charging, 9kg inc case and cables, 29cm (L), 18cm (W), 14cm (H).
Also testing smaller modules - 2 stack and 2 side-by-side. If the testing is successful will look to offer them as kits including rectifiers, case, PCB connectors and cables. Price TBA but will be under AUD1000 (USD750) for the 4kW DC charger.
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Very curious about your charger solution. Can you give us a bit more info, pics or perhaps a sneak preview?
Here's a preview of what we're testing for our Zero bikes.
Photo shows six stack => 116V DC, up to 12kW DC charging, 9kg inc case and cables, 29cm (L), 18cm (W), 14cm (H).
Also testing smaller modules - 2 stack and 2 side-by-side. If the testing is successful will look to offer them as kits including rectifiers, case, PCB connectors and cables. Price TBA but will be under AUD1000 (USD750) for the 4kW DC charger.
Looks like you might be onto something there, will you also offer to install them and show people how to use them correctly for those of us that know nothing about electronics?
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Looks like you might be onto something there, will you also offer to install them and show people how to use them correctly for those of us that know nothing about electronics?
If I produce a kit then I wouldn't recommend it to people with no electronics skills. The idea of producing a kit is to keep the cost down and allow people with some basic electrical and mechanical skills to assemble the units and get inexpensive fast charging. To build a fully complete unit requires a significant increase in cost - defeating one of the main aims of making these chargers - low cost.
In terms of installing them on a Zero - there are other charging options that are IP rated and suitable for installing on the bike - but they also come at 2-4 times the price for the same charge rate. I chose this path because given appropriate handling and use (carried in weatherproof bags/box and not left in the rain when charging), these chargers will be 50-80% cheaper than similar powered chargers (multiple TC, Elcon, Quiqs) with a similar 50-80% reduction in weight and volume.
In terms of how to use them, they are a DC charger with Anderson DC output connectors that utilise Zero's fast charge port. Use of the fast charge ports is covered in the Zero manual.
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Please keep us updated, once we see the charge time specs and you nail down your sale version I'd be interested in getting one up to Brissy for my 2016 S.
Off topic, but your track SR looks incredible.
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Please keep us updated, once we see the charge time specs and you nail down your sale version I'd be interested in getting one up to Brissy for my 2016 S.
Off topic, but your track SR looks incredible.
Good to know another Aussie on the forums :)
We have a facebook group called Sydney Electric Riders if you ever want to chat with Aussie Zero owners. We organise rides around Sydney but have a couple of guys in northern NSW too.
Will create a new thread here to discuss the details of the chargers in time, hopefully in April all going smoothly.
Thanks for the compliments on the track spec SR.
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You must mean Beamer "Jugs" like these right? LOL
(http://www.com-pany.com/bmw/bmwimg/b1.JPG)
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Please keep us updated, once we see the charge time specs and you nail down your sale version I'd be interested in getting one up to Brissy for my 2016 S.
Off topic, but your track SR looks incredible.
Good to know another Aussie on the forums :)
We have a facebook group called Sydney Electric Riders if you ever want to chat with Aussie Zero owners. We organise rides around Sydney but have a couple of guys in northern NSW too.
Will create a new thread here to discuss the details of the chargers in time, hopefully in April all going smoothly.
Thanks for the compliments on the track spec SR.
I'm still trying to decide where to mount these new chargers but they are a perfect fit for BM style side mounting. Just need to develop an IP rated "case" that opens up when charging(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170406/2e606be4431349c34f5aaf45d2a1d1b1.jpg)
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My issue with mounting it on the sides is even a slight tip over would be really expensive.
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My issue with mounting it on the sides is even a slight tip over would be really expensive.
Crash bars are available, and easily installed. (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Crash_Bars) (zeromanual link)
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My issue with mounting it on the sides is even a slight tip over would be really expensive.
Crash bars are available, and easily installed. (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Common_Modifications#OEM_Crash_Bars) (zeromanual link)
True, but they aren't damage proof. Ugly too.
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I've put Supercharger v2 units on each side of my crash bars. The mount is still provisional and the wiring needs extensions and sleeving but it basically works fine so far.
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Refresh my mind, you got 2 3.3kW units right?
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Refresh my mind, you got 2 3.3kW units right?
That's right. I'm mounting one unit on each side right now. This would be easier if I put two on one side and the SCv1 on the other side, but that'd be 15lbs vs 25lbs on each side, requiring something to even out the balance.
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Ah yes, I was already thinking that a 6.6 unit on each side might be a bit too large/heavy.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/7dc5ae32d05e6ed0cf6ae1f07aaeea79.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/10bb71394c57d44acfba1e76b0c38151.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/84ca7f3d96ab95bb82ed11d1bf1396e8.jpg)
Here are some shots of the current setup before I build a proper mount. SCv2 comparison with a QuiQ charger as well.
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The position is nice but aren't you afraid of water ingress while riding?
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The position is nice but aren't you afraid of water ingress while riding?
Of course. I'm working out a bracket to shield and mount each side.
Thankfully my rain risk is low this month.