ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Le Z Turbo on June 30, 2014, 04:31:26 PM
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I noticed a oil leak on the front fork, left side. I thought of a oil seal leak but a member of the forum told me he had the problem coming the lower part of the fork. Indeed as shown on my other post, the fork is leaking between the lower tube and the forged part retaining the wheel and the front brake.
But as I was investigating I discovered that the tube is free to rotate !!! I don't know if my front wheel is still retained by the left side of the fork !!!! I'M GOING TO DIE !!!
I made this small video: http://youtu.be/7SDh0DQDveM (http://youtu.be/7SDh0DQDveM)
I'm not the first one to have this issue.... Check your fork, I think the oil starting to leak is a good symptom. I think it's coming from the part retaining the brake caliper getting hot, then cold, then hot again at each breaking, cold, hot, etc....
Problem is my dealer in France stop making Zero, he is trying to reach the french representative by phone but nobody want to answer him. My rear shock is out leaking since 3 months, I had to replace it with a longer lengh, lower stroke DNM one. I'm a little on my own on these issues now, I'm feeling a bit lonely.
A little help from Zero or someone knowing how to fix the fork would be appreciated !!!
Also may I insisted that the only trouble with my bike are these suspensions and that I really enjoy this bike a lot. Maybe the 2014 have better suspension parts.
Laurent
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Contact aaronzeromoto
@aaronzeromoto
Zero Motorcycles
Director of Customer Experience
send him a PM he should be able to help you.
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Doing that right away, thanks !
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Having owned a 2012 S (which has the same fork as the 2013 S, I believe) and now a 2014 S, I can confirm that the larger 2014 S front suspension is a big improvement in performance compared with their smaller previous version. Hopefully, they will also turn out to be more robust and more reliable.
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The front forks have been the only real problem with my 2012 DS. I realize why Zero went with what they did, but i suspect a few Empulse owners didn't mind paying more for some higher-end components. Now that Zero has their powertrain sorted, I hope they focus on the other parts of the bike a bit more, especially if the 2014s have suspension reliability issues (beefier forks, but same supplier).
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Mine is a 2013 DS, maybe the 2014 won't suffer the same flaws ? And are the 2014's suspensions adaptable the 2013 frame ? I don't think so, new steering tube with different bearing size I think.
Laurent
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Some weeks ago I saw a 2013 FX with a 2014 FX fork. I don't know if there is additional work to do but I can ask.
Also they use the DS fork in a FX supermoto to have the correct brake holder. It seems everything should be exchangeable.
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The front forks have been the only real problem with my 2012 DS. I realize why Zero went with what they did, but i suspect a few Empulse owners didn't mind paying more for some higher-end components. Now that Zero has their powertrain sorted, I hope they focus on the other parts of the bike a bit more, especially if the 2014s have suspension reliability issues (beefier forks, but same supplier).
FWIW: I will say that the higher quality componentry definitely swayed me towards purchasing my Brammo Empulse.
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I suspected the problem had to do with the brake caliper's fatigue cycling the lower fork leg casting until it failed.
You can see how this casting is removed 4:45 into this video-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fTfc5nSepU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fTfc5nSepU)
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The front forks have been the only real problem with my 2012 DS. I realize why Zero went with what they did, but i suspect a few Empulse owners didn't mind paying more for some higher-end components. Now that Zero has their powertrain sorted, I hope they focus on the other parts of the bike a bit more, especially if the 2014s have suspension reliability issues (beefier forks, but same supplier).
FWIW: I will say that the higher quality componentry definitely swayed me towards purchasing my Brammo Empulse.
+1
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The only problem I see with the Bramo comments is that Zero has a much better chance of being around in a few years. Resale was a concern for me which is why I went with Zero (knowing they were using crap pit bike suspension).
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I don't think they're going away. Brammo has gotten grants from Oregon, secured several rounds of investors and is selling bikes all over the world. I think both motorcycle companies have a high liklihood they'll be around in the coming years.
I will say that having the Brembo/Sachs/Marzocchi/Parker parts, I'll have a very high liklihood of being able to find parts when I need them, and a low liklihood that they'll have issues. With Fast Ace/Nissin/J-Juan, I'm not so sure that will be the case.
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If I had to bet a carton of beer (OAMOB)* on which company will survive, I'd put my beer on the one without the string of dissatisfied customers, and without the problem with component failures.
And Laurent, thanks for the video.
Peter
*Old Australian Measure Of Betting
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I hope they do indeed both make it. I suspect there is plenty of room for several good options.
Now if Mission would just start shipping................
This is going a bit off topic, but does anyone have a feel for the relative production volume between Bramo and Zero. I had the impression Zero was way ahead but then that is simply an impression and not based on any facts. If Zero does have more product in the field, I would expect them to have more activity on the problem front.
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If either company stops producing motorcycles, I think it will only be because they were bought out by a major IC motorcycle manufacturer who plans to use their technology to market their own electric motorcycle. It seems to me that Polaris would be the most likely purchaser of Brammo and I don't have a clue who might be interested in Zero. Perhaps Kawasaki or Suzuki, or a Chinese firm. Maybe Aprilia, but certainly not BMW or KTM, who have their own ideas how EV's should be designed. Honda and Yamaha seem to have their own EV development programs and likely would need Zero to jump start their electric motorcycles.
As far as Zero's suspension choice goes, I really think they should consider switching to Showa components.
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I hope they do indeed both make it. I suspect there is plenty of room for several good options.
Now if Mission would just start shipping................
This is going a bit off topic, but does anyone have a feel for the relative production volume between Bramo and Zero. I had the impression Zero was way ahead but then that is simply an impression and not based on any facts. If Zero does have more product in the field, I would expect them to have more activity on the problem front.
If I had to take a guess, based upon previous recall numbers (such as the motor magnet recall), I would say that Zero is probably manufacturing at least twice as many "units" as Brammo this year.
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If I had to take a guess, based upon previous recall numbers (such as the motor magnet recall), I would say that Zero is probably manufacturing at least twice as many "units" as Brammo this year.
Rather than continuing to Speculate/Jump to conclusions/Assume, lets look at information gathered from the previous recall notices at the NHTSA (reference my other thread here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0))
Lets compare these instead:
Brammo recall for Tail assembly bracket weld (605 bikes) http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/brammo-recall-13v262000/ (http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/brammo-recall-13v262000/)
and
Zero Motor Controller glitch (667 bikes) http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/zero-recall-13V635000/ (http://edwardsmotorcyclelaw.com/zero-recall-13V635000/)
From that info:
The Brammo tail recall was for bikes built between Nov 2012 and June 2013.... ~600 bikes during ~8months.
Now here's where it gets interesting:
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM447792/RCDNN-13V635-9152P.pdf (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM447792/RCDNN-13V635-9152P.pdf)
In that document 667 Zero models were affected. The ones affected were all sevcon-based motorcycles of various date ranges from as early as 10/21/2011 up until 11/08/2013. IIRC, Zero switched to the Sevcon in 2012 (and the recall dates agree) and have used them ever since.
Also from that document:
"On 12/5/2013, Zero Motorcycles completed its internal investigation of this concern and concluded that 2012 and 2013 model motorcycles built with a Sevcon controller prior to 11/08/2013 have firmware that could respond to infrequent signal faults by discontinuing controller power to the motor, which could lead to a quits-while-running situation. Zero Motorcycles executive management considered this information and determined that a defect related to motor vehicle safety existed."
So that means all of the Zero bikes previous to 11/08/2013 that used the Sevcon controller totalled 667 bikes..... That includes the same months as the Brammo recall for the tail..... so in the first 6 months of 2013 Brammo produced ~600 bikes. Zero produced 667 bikes during all of 2012 and 2013.
I think Zero is far from producing "twice as many units as Brammo".
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For a post that starts off trying to call out assumptions, you sure are making some on your own. Those documents do not imply what you say they do.
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Rather than continuing to Speculate/Jump to conclusions/Assume, lets look at information gathered from the previous recall notices at the NHTSA (reference my other thread here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3795.0))
I don't know how much stock I would put in the 600 unit number there. The last VIN I saw that was assembled in April 2013 was not yet in the triple digits. "600 units potentially affected" doesn't mean 600 bikes have been assembled, or that 600 bikes have been sold.
Looking at your map is an interesting counterpoint. There are 18 Empulse R and E1 bikes registered on the owner map, produced since December 2012. There are 14 Zero SR bikes registered on the owner map, produced since January 2014. Both Brammo and Zero make other models too.
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The nhtsa quotes the number of bikes....not the range of Vin numbers. Total number of bikes affected. I'm directly quoting their documents for both bikes.
I'm not saying that Brammo produces more....but I'm saying that they produce far more than some people seem to think.
And yeah production does not equal sales numbers....but you all know that not everyone that owns a bike is going to post online or join a map. Nthsa numbers are as close as we'll likely get.
The nthsa data does include all bikes for zero for 2012 and 2013 on one recall....As well as a partial year production number for Brammo. Those are the numbers and they're far more accurate than assumptions made in some of the threads on this forum.
I'm trusting the nhtsa.
I'm done. Continue discussing the zero suspension issues.
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Not to add much to the production numbers discussion, although I would be very interested in the numbers if they ever come out officially, but where I get confused is the production of the Brammo Enertia. I sometimes forget that they still make and sell the Enertia because I haven't seen one on the road for at least the past 2 years. I keep thinking of just the Empulse when I think of Brammo sales and I now realize that is not the entire Brammo production picture, especially if you look at European sales where the Enertia is likely a bigger seller than the Empulse at this time.