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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Richard230 on May 30, 2014, 04:48:25 AM
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I just returned from a 140-mile ride (without needing to recharge) into the Santa Cruz Mountains on my power tank-equipped Zero, stopping at Big Basin State Park and then riding to Highway 1, just north of Santa Cruz and back to my home in Pacifica. This ride included lots of climbing up and down hills and riding against a stiff headwind along the Pacific coast.
My battery died just 100 yards from my home. Talk about range anxiety! I had to slow down to 40 mph for the last 30 miles as I watched the very accurate power gauge drop one percent at a time, falling to "0%" just as the bike died. Still, 140 miles isn't all that bad and at 2 cents a mile, the ride cost me $2.80. :)
The last 100 yards was uphill and taken in 20-foot segments, as the battery would die, then recover, then die again. But I made it home without needing to push. Upon returning my pack voltage was 94 volts and balancing showed 160 mV for four of the modules and 48 mV for one module (likely the newer "power tank" battery).
I have the bike charging at 1200 watts on a Kill-A-Watt meter and will report back tomorrow how much power it takes at the wall to fully charge a dead battery pack.
I might add that half way up Highway One I stopped at a convenience store and gas station that was well equipped with exterior wall outlets and asked the clerk if I could charge my bike for 30 minutes while I ate lunch. I told him that it would only use about 20 cents in power and offered to buy something in the store while my bike was charging. He thought about it for a while and then said it would cost me $5 to use their power to charge my bike. So I told him no thanks, keep your power, and I rode off toward home. >:( Apparently, gas stations are not feeling the love toward electric vehicles. :(
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Awesome report, Richard! Glad to read that you made it close enough to home safely!
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Fantastic! Interesting about the gas station/store owner. Hmmm...........must be a little worried about his future.
I saw in the paper this morning where the Calif legislature has said that 25% of the vehicles sold by 2020 must be zero emissions vehicles. However, plug-in hybrids will count as a percentage of a zero emission vehicle. Probably a little too optimistic about the date, so that will probably change down the road. But it should "kick-start" the process. Oops, sorry - used a gas bike term. :-[
Trikester
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Thanks for the good news! I feel a bit more confident about the 104 mile loop I have planned for when I get my SR 14.2... Up over Mount Hamilton, to Livermore, and back via Calaveras rd.
8)
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Richard230,
Do you remember what your average Wh/mile was on this trip? Thanks
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Fantastic to hear about your " Kramer " moment: good on you for taking it to the limit . Intrigued to hear about the difference between batteries: I think this is an issue to watch.certainly in solar battery systems, different age capacity and life can cause problems. Hopefully smart BMS will help overcome
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I might add that half way up Highway One I stopped at a convenience store and gas station that was well equipped with exterior wall outlets and asked the clerk if I could charge my bike for 30 minutes while I ate lunch. I told him that it would only use about 20 cents in power and offered to buy something in the store while my bike was charging. He thought about it for a while and then said it would cost me $5 to use their power to charge my bike. So I told him no thanks, keep your power, and I rode off toward home. >:( Apparently, gas stations are not feeling the love toward electric vehicles. :(
Sounds like someone saw an opportunity to make $5.
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This morning I checked my bike and it required 15 hours to fully recharge (the manufacturer claims 10 hours). It took 13.75 kWh of power, as measured by a Kill-A-Watt meter at my 122 V wall outlet, and the battery pack now has 13.22 kWh of capacity as shown on the Zero cell phone app. Voltage is now 115 Volts and the five battery modules are balanced within 2 mV of each other (between 1 mV and 3 mV). Apparently there has not been the slightest drop is battery performance or capacity over the 2100 miles and 50 recharges since I bought my Zero. If I recall correctly (I didn't write it down), I believe my trip watts per mile was something like 75 wpm.
One thing that I noticed was that as I was trying to hold a steady speed on level ground, the instantaneous watts per mile reading would jump all over, from say 95 to 130, back and forth. Also I felt some "surging" in the power train as I tried to hold a steady speed. It felt like an IC engine that was running lean. I hadn't noticed that before, probably because I am usually not trying to have a steady throttle hand and trying to maximize my range - giving me a lot more time to be aware of the bike's performance. I don't notice this issue during my normal riding.
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Let the range wars begin! That's great to hear you went 140 miles between charges in normal riding! Also, I'm jealous of the roads you have near you. Well played!
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what was the average speed for the trip?
75W/mile is slightly above the "City" range / speed advertised by zero on their page for the 14.2
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75 Wh/mile * 140 miles = 10.5 kWh
I'd be a little disappointed if that was all that could be extracted from the ZF14.2 pack in light riding.
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I should imagine that the Wh/mile stat is calculated based on the power supplied from the controller to the motor and like the mpg stat many cars and bikes give, I very much doubt it's accurate. For example it won't be taking into account the power being delivered to all the other electrical systems. There is bound to be some power used by the controller itself. Regenerative braking makes it fiendishly difficult too; while the controller can measure the power generated by the motor, it won't be able to account for the energy lost in the charging process. The battery pack gets warm from discharging and recharging. I think the controller has a big heat sink for air cooling. It's all energy being converted to heat and not going into the Wh calculation.
They say a man needs 2,500 kcal/day on average. That works out to 2.9 kWh. For a bike to travel 140 miles on less than five times that energy seems impressive to me. Talk about cutting it fine though Richard! Interesting post, thanks. [emoji106]
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I should imagine that the Wh/mile stat is calculated based on the power supplied from the controller to the motor
Definitely possible.. could coloumb count at the motor controller or into/out of the battery. You could potentially tell if it's the battery by resetting the counter, roll the bike a little ways, then let it sit with the headlight on and see if the watt hour/mile counter goes up.
ie:
0.5 miles @ 75 Wh/mile = 37.5 Wh, 1 hour with 55 watt lamp running = 55 Wh so it should be easily noticeable.
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Perhaps the best way to get the most accurate Wh figure for the trip is to simply calculate it from the amount of power required to fully charge the bike. Just in the same way people work out their mpg by topping up with petrol. The measure of power from the outlet versus the capacity reported by the app sounds realistic. You'd expect some loss between the two. 13.22 kWh works out to 94.4 W/mile.
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My gas guzzling Fazer does approx. 900Wh/m in comparison.
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I might have been wrong about the trip wpm display. I was taking a guess at what I thought it said on the display, as I did not write it down last night.
I would say that my average speed was 45 mph. That included rides of 35 mph up hill and 50 mph down hill. My guess is that I went up and down about 3000 feet in elevation during my ride. If there was any regen going back into the battery, I didn't see it on the display. Most of the time I was running in "sport" mode. I switched to "eco" mode during the last 20 miles, but I don't think what mode you are in makes much difference as far as range goes. It is your speed and not the mode that determines the power used.
The worst part of it was coming back on Highway 1, along the coast, where I needed to keep up a decent pace to keep from getting run over by vehicles doing 65 in that 55 limit highway. I was pushing against a 20 mph wind and that run really sucked the juice out of the battery pack. By the time I got home, I was kind of a nervous wreck. I don't plan to push the envelope like that again. ;) I'll let someone else try to beat my "record" on a stock Zero S. :)
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Nice Ride!
As far as the convenience store clerk... I've found that most people don't have the slightest idea about how much electricity costs. I stopped at a convenience store/gas station a few years ago (on my Vectrix) - the manager agreed to let me charge, but obviously didn't believe me when I said it wouldn't take more than 50 cents in electricity. I paid $5 to charge for 1/2 hour (just topping off the batteries before a return trip).
I didn't mind too much - they unplugged an ice-machine on the sidewalk to accommodate me - but that was expensive electricity.
140 miles on a single charge! I'm jealous ;-)
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Richard230,
Thanks for all the details here. It really is hard to compare one ride to another. I am trying to keep details on longer rides in order to help plan future rides. Very few rides allow you to stay at a certain MPH. Nearly all involve a mix of speed limits. I pay more attention to average Wh/mile instead of just MPH. I also saw the Wh/mile gauge jump around continously and could not see anything useful from that feature so I switched to average Wh/mile. Defintely a better option. If I am averaging 55-60 MPH I can expect to see typically 102-107 Wh/mile but have seen as low as 96 Wh/mile. When I am on US-1 going to Raleigh which is 70 MPH (and 35-45 miles) I can expect to see 150 Wh/mile. Pushing 80 MPH I can expect 167 Wh/mile. But it doesn't take very far at 35-45 MPH to bring those numbers down a lot once I get off US-1.
So riding 140 miles at about 75 Wh/mile makes sense to me. Yes, winds do make a difference and I have learned to check the weather forecast on longer trips. US-1 runs north-east and winds from the south-west are common. It is common to take less power to get to Raleigh than it does to get home because of the winds. If someone want to push the range limits they need to know about head winds and tail winds!
While ECO mode sounds like a good idea for longer range I will not run in that mode. We all know that sometimes quick acceleration gets you out of a dangerous situation and the ECO mode takes the ability to do that away from you. Acceleration is REALLY muted for the sake of increased range. Be aware of this if using it. I run custom nearly all the time. Same power as Sport but more regen is available and it is adjustable.
Pushing the range limits sounds like fun until you see 0% remaining and you are not home. I rode 96.2 miles, averaged about 55 MPH and 102.3 Wh/mile. It went to 0 about 2 miles or so from home. I checked my smart phone app once I got in the garage and saw 2% remaining despite 0% on the dash. This is common for the smart phone app to show a slightly higher charge level than the dash. Don't see that as a bad feature though.
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Richard230,
Not surprised at your recharge time. Once your charge level gets into the single digits charge times of 10 hours or more are common. This is not a big deal if you are plugging in at 8 pm. If you are seeing this at 10am after a morning ride it sucks. Which is why they make quick chargers!
One example of how the Zero 1 Kw quick chargers make a difference:
Internal charger only: 9:50
With 1 Quick charger: 4:55
With 2 Quick chargers: 3:41.
I have gotten 2 of the 2500 watt Elcon chargers from Hollywood Electrics and so far really like what I see. Once I get some more data I will post. The J1772 charging stations are nice!
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Even with the 15-hour charge time, which I do not plan to repeat, my bike was fully charged by the time I was ready to ride in the morning. :) So I am still not ready to lug around an extra charger, as finding 120V outlets that people will you use for an hour or two, is really tough and I would just prefer to manage my route and riding style.
One thing that I have noticed is that after having run the battery pack on my Zero down to zero, the bike now charges to 100% before turning off, whereas it used to turn off at 98% and then finish charging to 100% a day later. The 98% business started after the power tank was installed. So now I guess the BMS is now fully adapted to having the power tank on board.
I would like to emphasis that, unlike the 2012 models that gave you a few more miles at slow speed when all of the power bars were gone, when the 2014 bikes say 0%, they mean it. When the gauge reaches "0%", expect for the bike to stall out about 100 yards later. :o
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Hello Richard230,
i think you have the range record till now !
I am owning a brandnew zero SR since 2 weeks and drove 161 km (100.0 Miles) till 0% battery level last week. Controller shut of the last 200 meters every second, same effect as reported from you.
Speed was between 46 and 53 mph.
Drivemode was ECO the whole time.
Yesterday and drove on the highway behind a truck and hat a calculated range of over 112 miles !
Speed was over 53 mph.
That is a boring method and also a little bit dangerous but saves a lot of energy....
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arno, you would need to travel 226km to beat Richard230's record.
I have gone over 100 miles several times on my 2012 Zero S including one trip of 114.1 miles (183.5km).
Keep going and ride safe!
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Richard, about your surging thing, this is exactly like mine did, it was doing it almost all the time in steady speed. My controller needed a recalibration
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Richard, about your surging thing, this is exactly like mine did, it was doing it almost all the time in steady speed. My controller needed a recalibration
That is interesting. I didn't know that the controller could be recalibrated. ???
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Good to hear, Richard.
I'm a week in and the 90 mile mixed range is about spot on for my location and style of riding. Anyone know of a 141 mile hill we can ride down to "break the record"? :)
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Sounds like someone saw an opportunity to make $5.
This.
The clerk's back pocket would keep your fiver.
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Sounds like someone saw an opportunity to make $5.
This.
The clerk's back pocket would keep your fiver.
I don't doubt that. ::)
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Sounds like someone saw an opportunity to make $5.
Yeah, I'd agree. I've read several times that gas station/convenience stores make little money on the gas and lots on the "convenience" items.
What the owners don't yet realize is that an EV rider will be spending MUCH more time at their establishments if they are charging than a gas vehicle rider. It would stand to reason that some free or nominal-cost charging stations, along with some relaxing niceties like gourmet coffee, some decent food, and a nice place to sit and relax would constitute a business opportunity for the creative convenience store owner.
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Some of the Mapco gas stations in Nashville are starting to install CHAdeMO quick chargers. These are Nissan units, so they should work with the Zeros.
http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com/2014/05/04/nashville-mapco-gets-a-nissan-fast-charge-unit/#comment-2387 (http://jpwhitenissanleaf.com/2014/05/04/nashville-mapco-gets-a-nissan-fast-charge-unit/#comment-2387)
There are fast chargers at 7 Mapco stations in the greater Nashville area. 1 in Hendersonville, 2 in Nashville, 1 in Antioch, 1 in Franklin, 1 in Brentwood, and 1 in Murfreesboro. You can grab a bite to eat at each of these locations whle you are charging.
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... Up over Mount Hamilton, to Livermore, and back via Calaveras rd.
Oh man, that takes me back! I lived in San Jose for several years, and loved to ride my CBR600 and then my ZX-11 on that loop. I think I enjoyed that ride more than Skyline Blvd....though chatting with the other weirdos riders up at Alice's Restaurant was always fun too. One guy had mounted a bird cage to his bike and always brought his parrot along for some fresh air.
I wish I could join you on my SR, but I live in San Diego now and I don't have the power tank installed either. Enjoy!
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Speaking of weirdos up at Alice's Restaurant, last Sunday I saw this fellow in the parking lot who has a solution to running out of gas while riding his BMW GS. ;D