ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2013+ => Topic started by: Burton on April 28, 2014, 08:12:55 AM
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I mapped out all the connections on the 2013 today, less the internal battery connections, and I am now contemplating the best way to map them so it will be the most usable for the community.
So far I have most of the connection termals / molex vectorized in illustrator and in visio though I haven't decided which I will use to map the wires out. And I might only include the connectors as reference to indicate pin number and opt for something easier to illustrate actual connections given some connectors have 30+ pins
If anyone has some motorcycle wire diagrams they really like post up a link so I can get an idea of what everyone is expecting.
About to start project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbao7-l3Gw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbao7-l3Gw)
Completed cable mapping and forgot I unplugged my cable >_<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4NCyZjSpw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4NCyZjSpw)
Oh, that reminds me I need to update my blog with all I have done this week!
EDIT(9-23-2014) v1.0.1 : Added Anderson connector wires and grounding wire from battery to charger
EDIT(9-24-2014) v1.0.2: Added single wire for molex connector from motor and shifted labels as needed.
EDIT(10-14-2014) v1.1.0 Added light blue translucent grid. This required squeezing in the stuff around the edges. Appending as an alternative download for those who don't wish to have grids.
EDIT(10-15-2014) v1.1.1 Corrected white wire coming from mode switch being under another wire. Added label for mode switch. Maintaining two versions of the drawing (one with a grid the other without)
EDIT (05-14-2015) v1.1.2 Added wires to trip contactor for external chargers using stock Anderson connector.
EDIT (10-23-2015) v1.1.3 Moved Orange / Gray wire on 35 pin sevcon controller from pin 17 to pin 18 (Credit Trikester)
EDIT (10-23-2015) v1.2.0 Added "Use" indicators and voltages where known for ODBII and 35 pin Controller connector. This text is blue, smaller than cable indicator text, and has two underlines. These are placed in most cases right above the cables in question but in some cases this was not possible given some unknown visio bugs (to be fixed in future releases)
EDIT (10.28-2015) v1.2.1 Added the orange text next to connectors to show what they plug into and fixed one rogue cable which was overlapping with another
EDIT (10-31-2015) v1.2.2 Modified general layout left of center to make more readable. Added general Fuse numbers in place of DC:DC fuse amps. Added Fuse key left of DC:DC Fuses. Added Fuse # indicators to wires where known.
EDIT (11-11-2015) v1.2.3 Corrected gauge of wires leading from DC:DC sevcon converter to fuse panel (Credit pacificcricket)
EDIT (11-11-2015) v1.2.4 Corrected wire going to B- on sevcon for color, added wire to throttle connector (Credit rayivers)
EDIT (11-19-2015) v1.2.5 Corrected pin 32 to indicate the digital 7 input function, brake signal.
EDIT (04-23-2017) v1.3.0
- Changed blue underlined references to USB to either 3.3v UART or UART (in the case of the unused red wire) | rDacted
- Corrected the Aux "charging" indicator wires coming from the SBS75X pins 3 / 4 to indicate they connect to a siliconed female connector on the battery next to the B+ / Bi wires. | Electric Cowboy
- Updated pin 38 / 40 wires coming from MBB used by Trikester to let the bike know to accept AUX charging to include the switched 100K ohm resistor circuit and a note about why it exists. This is NOT a stock circuit on 2013 wire looms. | Electric Cowboy
- Updated Fuse box section to better reflect reality and changed the AUX circuit to stock amp size (10amps) from 30amps. This update propagated out to the wire labels where fuses are referenced. | MrDude_1
- Updated credit to include link to my signature link showing all content found here on EMF, which includes this post, from my personal website. | Burton
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I have Zero's full 2013 MMX schematic but I signed a non disclosure agreement, so I can't show any part of it. However, I can say that all of the connectors are shown as simple rectangles with pin numbers along the edges. Wire colors are standard nomenclature. Tie point connections are shown as large black dots with a number and letter in them. As near as I can remember most (or all) of those tie points are not terminal studs but are multiple connections within the cables.
Trikester
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I mapped out all the connections on the 2013 today, less the internal battery connections, and I am now contemplating the best way to map them so it will be the most usable for the community.
So far I have most of the connection termals / molex vectorized in illustrator and in visio though I haven't decided which I will use to map the wires out. And I might only include the connectors as reference to indicate pin number and opt for something easier to illustrate actual connections given some connectors have 30+ pins
If anyone has some motorcycle wire diagrams they really like post up a link so I can get an idea of what everyone is expecting.
About to start project:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbao7-l3Gw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mKbao7-l3Gw)
Completed cable mapping and forgot I unplugged my cable >_<
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4NCyZjSpw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-4NCyZjSpw)
Oh, that reminds me I need to update my blog with all I have done this week!
I tried to give you some indications in the comments of one of your video but i got no feedback about that... :-\ I dont know if you apprecaited or not... so all i have to say is good luck...
Doc
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I think your average bike owner doesn't take apart their bike until there is a problem, so your wiring diagram probably wont' have a lot of interest until sevearl years down the road people need the info.
I'm interested in your aerodyanmic shell idea. I've read these shells can increase performance 30 to 50%
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I tried to give you some indications in the comments of one of your video but i got no feedback about that... :-\ I dont know if you apprecaited or not... so all i have to say is good luck...
Doc
I could have sworn I thanked you for helping me label some stuff and told ya Brandon said he would confirm what you said was accurate since you have a 2012. If I didn't I am terribly sorry Doctorbass. Any help I can get from the community is great and I am not one to let it go unrecognized.
This is the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDu2IR-ndAE) where you commented about the labeling if I recall. And my first video in the series showing basic large components you ID'ed several of them as well.
Thank you sir, I am sorry it seems like I forgot.
I think your average bike owner doesn't take apart their bike until there is a problem, so your wiring diagram probably wont' have a lot of interest until sevearl years down the road people need the info. I'm interested in your aerodyanmic shell idea. I've read these shells can increase performance 30 to 50%
That might be an accurate statement rollandelliott. I like to understand what is going on with my bikes and this is my first electric so the best way to figure that out is to take it apart :)
As for the aerodynamic shell idea, it wasn't mine. This shell is Craig Vetter's "Last Vetter Fairing" and he has been doing this stuff for a very long time. Terry Hershner said I could expect a 50% increase in range with the modification so I am looking forward to it as well. While I haven't formally laid out my goals I am going to try to make the bike look good when it is done =)
On another note I just buttoned back up the wire harness, which might end up coming apart again when I get my title / parts, and I am going to start making logical connections with my notes in visio and see how it goes.
And on that note I have an updated progress video:
http://youtu.be/5QYF7uFa7-U (http://youtu.be/5QYF7uFa7-U)
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hi Burton , I like your wiring diagram . you've done a lot of work could save the rest of us a lot of time . would you ever consider sharing it . thank you . Jim
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I actually still have 100 connections to go :) I will try to put in some time here and there to get it done for ya ^_^
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It looks like your schematic will be easier to follow than the one Zero sent me when I bought the Powertrain kit for building my e-trike.
The paper size of Zero's schematic is approx 3' x 4' (when printed full size from my computer) and it is pretty full. I had to hang it on the wall to use it. Are you going to break yous up into separate drawings to make smaller prints? I originally tried to use a smaller printout for the entire schematic but it was too hard to read.
Sure wish I could save you this work and send mine but a signed agreement is to be honored.
Trikester
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I have about 60 connections to go now as I threw some on there the other day.
Is yours in color? This will be in color and have the connectors indicated. It won't match a stock bike 100% but it will be close and I am willing to update it to reflect a stock bike with the help of you all.
Right now it only exists as a visio drawing. I can do exports to pdf, eps, esp, svg, etc. I normally use these things on my tablet / phone so ... It isn't too hard to get a format you want it in. It might also be missing some things you find on your stock drawing.
-Burton
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Yes mine is in color but when I went to Kinko's, with my USB memory chip, to get the large print it was wait 24 hours and pay $75 for color or get it now in B&W for $12. I went with B&W & used the color labels that were on the schematic. It would have been nice to have the color print but not absolutely necessary.
Your schematic with the connectors identified by shape will be a big help. I was always trying to figure out what connector I was looking for. Their connectors are just rectangles on the schematic with wires going in and out.
A funny thing. There were some connections that I didn't seem to have. It turns out that the only schematic they could send me was for a military version of the MX. It showed connections for infrared lights and some other stuff that of course I didn't have in my harness. I'm probably the only person outside of Zero that has a schematic for a military version. 8) Another reason that it stays with me.
BTW - There are the connections for both the MX dash and the FX, S, DS dash in the harness. However, that may have changed in 2014.
Trikester
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Getting closer to having something to share ... here is a preview of what will come soon.
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3910/14503839299_5dd5f582b5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/o6DY7P)
Sneak peak (https://flic.kr/p/o6DY7P) by callmeburton (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr
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Very very nice, thanks for sharing your work with us !
Laurent
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Getting closer to having something to share ... here is a preview of what will come soon.
That looks good I'll be needing that for my project ;D. If I can ask what do you do Burton? To product something like this you have to be related to this field somehow?
Also can you give some more info on the "charge controller" such as the sticker label and the manufacturer. Thanks
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This looks like some amazing work you've put in here!
Really looking forwards to seeing the finished product.
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Dear Burton,
this require a great deal of energy and deserve mad props.
most sencere thanks.
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Version 1 of this. The default google docs viewer doesn't show full quality. To see full quality please download the document. It is made to be printed on 11x17 tabloid size paper if you desire something physical to reference.
Some side notes and things I need others to verify or check.
1. My ignition has two wires and I do not know if this is stock as most have at least 3.
2. It would be nice if someone could check ALL connectors on their bike to see if the colors / pins for the cables match especially with the controller since I have an upgraded size 6 controller.
Post up any requested changes and suggestions.
EDIT (removed google drive link see first post in thread for latest version http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961))
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Version 1 of this. The default google docs viewer doesn't show full quality. To see full quality please download the document. It is made to be printed on 11x17 tabloid size paper if you desire something physical to reference.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2BBwWjoCrwXYTVnRDM0STB2dHM/edit?usp=sharing
Some side notes and things I need others to verify or check.
1. My ignition has two wires and I do not know if this is stock as most have at least 3.
2. It would be nice if someone could check ALL connectors on their bike to see if the colors / pins for the cables match especially with the controller since I have an upgraded size 6 controller.
Post up any requested changes and suggestions.
Can someone attach the document here? I'm in China right now and can not access most of Google. Thanks in advance
Danny
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Here ya go.
EDIT: Removed attached link. To download latest version see first post in this thread http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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Version 1 of this. The default google docs viewer doesn't show full quality. To see full quality please download the document. It is made to be printed on 11x17 tabloid size paper if you desire something physical to reference.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2BBwWjoCrwXYTVnRDM0STB2dHM/edit?usp=sharing
Some side notes and things I need others to verify or check.
1. My ignition has two wires and I do not know if this is stock as most have at least 3.
2. It would be nice if someone could check ALL connectors on their bike to see if the colors / pins for the cables match especially with the controller since I have an upgraded size 6 controller.
Post up any requested changes and suggestions.
Can someone attach the document here? I'm in China right now and can not access most of Google. Thanks in advance
Danny
Tssss, they like to block things and think this is the way to treat their citizens. One day they will discover they can't block the information anymore.
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Burton thank you very much for sharing this. I plan on taking the bike apart this winter and your diagram will definitely make things much easier.
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Most of those wires are in bundles. I took all the bundles apart obviously ;)
I need to add other known voltages to the diagram. Just found out yesterday the ignition wires are showing the voltage of the battery. Not sure on the amps though but the wire is 18awg if I recall.
I will update this when I get new information or corrections. If your just taking the harness off and not requiring or looming the wires then I would suggest putting painters tape on the connections before you take them off so you know where they go. It will be far faster than referring to this diagram. I even did this at the start of my process just so I could track connections ;)
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Tssss, they like to block things and think this is the way to treat their citizens. One day they will discover they can't block the information anymore.
I don't think they can block it now, there's so much stuff getting through.
BTW Burton thanks for sharing and appreciate all the hard work you are putting into this
Danny
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Great job, thank you very much for sharing :)
One question: Is the schematic complete for the Andersson aux charger port? Looks like there's only two signal wires and one high current wire going from this connector in the schematic?! I assume the connector is at the bottom left (right to the CCU) of the schematic?
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I have a feeling I put that orange line as a place holder and never went through and took my measurements. I also need to add the ground wire for the charger hookup now that I am looking at that >_<
No biggie, easy to modify stuff. When I get home I will update it and re-post about 4 hours from now.
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Thanks for sharing this Burton. Amazing work! I am definitely going to be doing some winter projects as well.
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Added the extra wires I was missing near the Anderson connector.
I do not know the gauge of these wires. If I had to guess I would say they are 12 but they are thermally insulated wires for sure. I also took a guess at the ground wire gauge as it is pretty hard to take my seat off right now with the Givi V46 mount I put over top it. If anyone wants to check for me that would be great.
Find the latest version attached the first post in this thread. http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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I don't think they can block it now, there's so much stuff getting through.
BTW Burton thanks for sharing and appreciate all the hard work you are putting into this
Danny
"You can't stop the signal..."
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I estimated (by sight) the wires going to the Andersson connector as being 10 gauge, which would fit with the 30 amp rating of the fuse.
BTW - Neither side of the battery HVDC circuit is connected to the chassis of the bike, even though it's shown with a "ground" symbol.
Trikester
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Just found out yesterday the ignition wires are showing the voltage of the battery. Not sure on the amps though but the wire is 18awg if I recall.
Hey Burton, did you get a chance to get to the bottom of this? (I guess I could just check it myself)
I don't suppose it's an always-on 12v connection? :-)
(Or am I misunderstanding what "voltage of the battery" means?)
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Great Work Burton, can i offer a suggestion of adding grid co-ordinates around outside of diagram in the border.
like they do on maps. Letter across the top and numbers down the side.
That way when we ask about diagram we can give you a ref of (D4) connector 7, purple wire to switch (F6)
as some items dont have lables, so no easy way to reference.
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Tommi, the ignition wires are high voltage but not sure how many amps they could support, and they are always on.
Firepower, good idea. I will update the file shortly. I included the connector names given what they hook up to and PIN numbers thinking people would use them but a grid system would be easier to use.
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Thanks there a few wires that are covered by other wires, one grid is on i be able to describe where. :)
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Thanks there a few wires that are covered by other wires, one grid is on i be able to describe where. :)
Or just take a screen shot of it and post the image up so I can fix it all at once :)
Going to be adding my RFID circuit to the bike today and cleaning the house so likely wont be able to change the diagram till later tomorrow.
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If you could share some hints on how you gain access to the DC/DC converter, then that would be appreciated :-) I had a look there yesterday and it looked a "bit" buried and tucked away.
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If you could share some hints on how you gain access to the DC/DC converter, then that would be appreciated :-) I had a look there yesterday and it looked a "bit" buried and tucked away.
On my bike I have no rats nest. The traditional nest is behind the battery. EC took all of it out and flipped in on top of the battery to access it through the gas tank shell area. I have not moved my wires back behind the tank and likely wont do so.
Your best bet is to just find the black wire bundle and positap into it. I am going to do this later today when I add my RFID circuit so expect to see some notes on how to find the wires you need and how to cleanly access them to add your own switch driven AC/DC 12v converter which would be always on if desired.
There is no always on 12v DC source on the bike. You will only find always on DC battery voltage sources (that is the voltage varies with the pack voltage from about 98-117)
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Grid added. Not sure if I like it and I still can't seem to find any area on the wire diagram where wires overlap which do not all terminate at the same junction point. (like in the case of wire bundle 2 where all the ground wires meet)
I added the file to the first post in this thread as an adjunct download for those who wish to not have the grid in favor of a slightly more expanded layout.
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At E4 there is a white wire that goes under a purple wire then reappears at E6
its pair is with a orange/black wire coming from a switch near anderson connector at I2
looks like it just needs moving up with its orange/black pair.
(what is switch for?)
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That is the mode selection switch (Sport / Eco). Guess you wouldn't know that unless you took your off and looked at it from the side ;)
I will add the label and move the wire tomorrow. Working on my quick charger build right now.
Good catch. Those white wires can be fun to track.
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Burton,
This is amazing work! I looked at your Youtube video and kept shacking my head thinking I'd never have the guts to take everything apart like that without a map of how to put it back together.
Do you (or anyone else) know if your diagram would be the same for the 2013 DS? I'm getting a demo one from zero in a few weeks and your diagram will probably come in handy.
Cheers!
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It should be identical to the DS. The only difference so far as I know between the S and DS is the hardware not the wiring. My S has DS shocks on it for example.
An easy way to confirm this would be to look at the connectors and compare them to the pin-outs I have provided.
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Updated files added. See change log on first post for notes.
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Hi Burton,
this is a great job and thanks for this work!
One question: what is the "RMS" where the small wires from the Anserson connector goes into?
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That is actually an update I have been meaning to make >_<
Should say "sig to BMS" and it hooks into (edit: battery) pin 38 / 40 on the 40 pin connector in upper right black white goes to 38 if I recall but I will double check (These wires are NOT installed on my bike yet)
I will update it when I get home, about to go ride my ICE bike home since I stripped all the teeth off my zero's belt :/ (waiting for parts to come in to "fix" that as well)
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Thanks, Burton!
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Updates are added (see first post for attachments)
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You might want to check them, the aspect ratio is wrong, and a lot of the diagram is cut off as a result.
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You might want to check them, the aspect ratio is wrong, and a lot of the diagram is cut off as a result.
Fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out. Last time I trust visio to apply the settings I give it. >_<
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Updates for version 1.1.3
Moved Orange / Gray wire on 35 pin sevcon controller from pin 17 to pin 18 (Credit Trikester)
New versions attached at end of first post for downloading:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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First I should apologize to the 4 or 5 people who downloaded version 1.1.3 moments ago.
Looking at the diagram I realized there is a lot more information I could now add and merely fixing a simple wire mistake wasn't good enough.
v1.2.0 Added "Use" indicators and voltages where known for ODBII and 35 pin Controller connector. This text is blue, smaller than cable indicator text, and has two underlines. These are placed in most cases right above the cables in question but in some cases this was not possible given some unknown visio bugs (to be fixed in future releases)
I will ask the people who really know what the traffic is on wires I labeled as well as other wires please let me know so I can update the diagram if it isn't accurate or if I could include more information. (use grid version to let me know what you are referring to)
Again feedback always welcome.
Download from original thread at attachment section:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/669/21930736084_5e2c3050b7.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zpWKMo) (https://flic.kr/p/zpWKMo)
v1.2.1 uploaded.
Added the orange text next to connectors to show what they plug into and fixed one rogue cable which was overlapping with another
Download from original thread at attachment section:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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Thanks! :)
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Burton can you label the fuse function at location B4.
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Burton can you label the fuse function at location B4.
Will update that for you now ;)
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/588/22623308346_67eb805fb9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/At9nos)
v1.2.2 Modified general layout left of center to make more readable. Added general Fuse numbers in place of DC:DC fuse amps. Added Fuse key left of DC:DC Fuses. Added Fuse # indicators to wires where known.
Download the update on the first post in this thread in the attachments section.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0)
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...
As for the aerodynamic shell idea, it wasn't mine. This shell is Craig Vetter's "Last Vetter Fairing" and he has been doing this stuff for a very long time. Terry Hershner said I could expect a 50% increase in range with the modification so I am looking forward to it as well. While I haven't formally laid out my goals I am going to try to make the bike look good when it is done =)
To be clear, CV and TH are pretty clear to say the range *at high speed* can double with good aerodynamics. Essentially you can expect to get the low speed range at higher speeds, not double best-case range.
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Burton can you label the fuse function at location B4.
Will update that for you now ;)
Thanks Burton ;D
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To be clear, CV and TH are pretty clear to say the range *at high speed* can double with good aerodynamics. Essentially you can expect to get the low speed range at higher speeds, not double best-case range.
Tony, first welcome to the forum! We need more people here as I know there are more owners than I see posting.
You are correct, at 70mph+ the efficiency can be double with the last vetter fairing ... this is why the competitions he holds are at 70mph. I don't think I made a blanket claim to increase my city range by 50% as well ;) Most people who have read my many other posts on this know my commute is at 75mph year round in all weather conditions which was why I went with TLVF in the first place.
Speaking of TLVF I plan to mount it to the bike for this winter so I can compare the efficiency to last winter and enjoy the environmental protection ;) The two front halves are already glassed together I just need to trim it down, reattach or make a new sill, throw the turret on and paint it black ;) Actually now that I think about it I also need to make a way to mount my headlights and fog lights lol
If you want to follow this process check out this thread and look for the two links to the last vetter fairing ;) http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5155.msg35859#msg35859 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=5155.msg35859#msg35859)
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(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/588/22623308346_67eb805fb9_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/At9nos)
v1.2.2 Modified general layout left of center to make more readable. Added general Fuse numbers in place of DC:DC fuse amps. Added Fuse key left of DC:DC Fuses. Added Fuse # indicators to wires where known.
Download the update on the first post in this thread in the attachments section.
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.0)
I am wondering about that Fuse #3. If the stock is at 10A, how did you get the number 30A ? Isn't the entire DC-DC rated at 30A (400 Watts) ?
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I chose to install a 30 amp fuse here because the other aux items running off the DC:DC connector don't use anywhere close to their fused amps and I run winter heated gear :D
Which is why I indicated stock fuse is 10 amps (since the color for a 30amp fuse is green in the US). I know of several other people who run this fuse as 30 amps as well.
Ideally an installation of a second DC:DC converter would be a better choice provided the main fuse for this on the battery could handle the extra load.
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I chose to install a 30 amp fuse here because the other aux items running off the DC:DC connector don't use anywhere close to their fused amps and I run winter heated gear :D
Which is why I indicated stock fuse is 10 amps (since the color for a 30amp fuse is green in the US). I know of several other people who run this fuse as 30 amps as well.
Ideally an installation of a second DC:DC converter would be a better choice provided the main fuse for this on the battery could handle the extra load.
Understood, thank you. I was thinking about hooking up an air horn to that fuse, draw should be around 18A, so I was wondering about that 30A situation. Seems like the wire itself is not rated above 22A.
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Seems like the wire itself is not rated above 22A.
What wire is not rated above 22A @ 12vdc ?
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Seems like the wire itself is not rated above 22A.
What wire is not rated above 22A @ 12vdc ?
Well, I was wondering about that 16AWG going to the fuse #3. This might be from a different context (my understanding of some electrical
concepts is limited), but this table lists max at 22A : http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm)
I am also wondering why is the wire coming to the fuse #3 from DC-DC is 16AWG, but going from the fuse is 14AWG...
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The page itself said it is a guide ... and let me show you why.
Lets take that 22A max for a 1' length of 16AWG wire.
Apply 12vdc to it and you get 264Watts
Apply 120vAC to it and get 2640Watts ...
And if that isn't enough to convince you there is a voltage drop to consider.
Throw a load of 22A @ 12vdc over 1' of 16AWG and you could get a 0.5vdc drop at the other end.
Now that said, you are right ... the wires going to the #3 fuse are not 16AWG :) I updated the wire diagram and corrected the numbers going into the fuse box from the DC:DC converter [just looked on the bike to confirm]
All fuses but the #3 are 16AWG, and the #3 leading wire is 14AWG coming from the DC:DC sevcon converter.
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The page itself said it is a guide ... and let me show you why.
Lets take that 22A max for a 1' length of 16AWG wire.
Apply 12vdc to it and you get 264Watts
Apply 120vAC to it and get 2640Watts ...
And if that isn't enough to convince you there is a voltage drop to consider.
Throw a load of 22A @ 12vdc over 1' of 16AWG and you could get a 0.5vdc drop at the other end.
Now that said, you are right ... the wires going to the #3 fuse are not 16AWG :) I updated the wire diagram and corrected the numbers going into the fuse box from the DC:DC converter [just looked on the bike to confirm]
All fuses but the #3 are 16AWG, and the #3 leading wire is 14AWG coming from the DC:DC sevcon converter.
Excellent, thank you for the explanation!
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Burton,
Thanks much for all the work you've done on this print, it's great!
One quick question - is the throttle definitely a two-wire setup (brown & blue only), as shown?
Ray
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Rayivers you are correct there is three >__<
The third I even had tapped off to indicate its destination but it seems I never added it to my spreadsheet!
It terminates at a grouping of wires which lead to the B- on the sevcon controller (which makes complete sense since you can't ground anywhere else for the throttle since it goes right to the sevcon controller inputs)
Updated and added new version 1.2.4 with changes.
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OK, cool - thanks! I'm in the beginning stages of a Domino throttle swap so I wanted to be extra-sure of the basics.
Ray
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UPDATE: v1.2.5 Corrected pin 32 on sevcon controller (I7) to indicate the digital 7 input function, brake signal.
You can download the updated wire diagram on the first post attachments section of this thread.
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I finally got to installing the air horn this weekend, which gave me a peek at the fuse box. Accessory fuse
was #2 (2014 DS), so looks like wiring has changed from the previous year.
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I finally got to installing the air horn this weekend, which gave me a peek at the fuse box. Accessory fuse
was #2 (2014 DS), so looks like wiring has changed from the previous year.
My offer still sands. If someone comes to my house with a different year / model I will gather the required information and make a wire diagram specific to that model. ... So far no one has taken me up on this offer :D
I would also be willing to remotely train someone to gather the data for me to use to create a wire diagram as well. (anyone want a winter project?)
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My offer still sands. If someone comes to my house with a different year / model I will gather the required information and make a wire diagram specific to that model. ... So far no one has taken me up on this offer :D
I would also be willing to remotely train someone to gather the data for me to use to create a wire diagram as well. (anyone want a winter project?)
Ah, yeah... you're only 3000 miles (30 charges) away :D
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Hence the offer to train someone remotely ;)
All you need to know how to do is keep a list, take pictures, create labels, and use a multimeter's minimal level functions ;)
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pacificcricket,
When you say it is in slot to where is the DC : DC coming into the fuse box ... from the top or bottom?
I ask because on my diagram I have the DC : DC converter at the top and count left to right. If you had it on the bottom and counted left to right it would be slot 2 for you and slot 3 for me ;)
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pacificcricket,
When you say it is in slot to where is the DC : DC coming into the fuse box ... from the top or bottom?
I ask because on my diagram I have the DC : DC converter at the top and count left to right. If you had it on the bottom and counted left to right it would be slot 2 for you and slot 3 for me ;)
You're right, I didn't think of the orientation. There was sticker next to the fuse box, from left to right accessory fuse was at #2, but I don't know how it was connected to the converter.
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You're right, I didn't think of the orientation. There was sticker next to the fuse box, from left to right accessory fuse was at #2, but I don't know how it was connected to the converter.
I will have to check my fuse box to see if it has numbers and update the diagram as needed ;)
The BLUE wires coming into the fuse box should be from the DC : DC step-down converter. Not sure if you can see this or can backtrack the wires going to the fuse box to the larger Sevcon DC DC controller (assuming it is external on your bike)
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> All you need to know how to do is keep a list, take pictures, create labels,
> and use a multimeter's minimal level functions ;)
And disassemble enough to pull things out where you can see them!
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Many thanks for the wiring diagram. It's amazing!
One point of clarification though. I'm not sure if your 2013 S differs from my 2016 FXS, but I don't have any USB connections on my ODBII port. Pins 8 and 9 are actually a 3.3V serial UART running at 38400bps (also seen here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4296.msg28366#msg28366 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4296.msg28366#msg28366))
So I'm not sure if the USB label in the wiring diagram is a mistake or whether you actually do have USB on your bike. The labeling of TX and RX suggests it's probably a UART (USB would be labeled as D+ and D-) Are you able to clarify?
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I think those are the USB D+ and D- *signals*, not actual connector.
When I've opened up USB cables, I've found red and black, which are +5V and ground respectively, and a differential pair. All four seem to correspond to wires indicated on Burton's diagram. I haven't tested this, but I imagine the USB cable or bluetooth dongle the dealers use isn't much more than a tap into these particular pins, exposing a fairly standard USB-Serial interface. I bet it'd show up as /dev/ttyUSB0 in Linux.
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Yep, that's exactly what I thought when I read the diagram - so I built a cable to do exactly that and it didn't work.
Then noticing the post I linked to in my previous post I decided to look at the signals using my scope - and sure enough I discovered that it was a 3.3V serial UART as the post I linked to suggested. So I built a cable to decode the UART and it was correct.
I'm 100% certain that I've got it correct on my bike. My question was whether this was different for the 2013 S - which is what the wiring diagram was made against. I suspect that Zero wouldn't change their pinouts, so I suspect Burton might have it labeled incorrectly - but I'm not certain which is why I posed the question.
I'm happy to stand corrected for the 2013 model - but I wanted to make sure that new players don't waste time building a cable if it won't work for them. If you've got a spare moment, please check yours out with a scope monitoring pin 8. If you turn the bike on while the scope is connected I think you'll see serial data being sent as the board starts up. In fact, it should resemble this:
*************************************************************
* *
* Zero Motorcycles MBB *
* *
* Board Name : MBB PCB ASSY CORTEX M3 15MY IMPL *
* Board PN : 41-07782 *
* Board Rev : 03 *
* Board Rev Sense : 03 *
* Firmware Name : FIRMWARE MBB CORTEX M3 15MY IMPL *
* Firmware PN : 75-07785 *
* Firmware Rev : 40 *
* Built : Oct 21 2015 14:36:55 *
*************************************************************
...etc etc
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For what it's worth, the digiNow reaper dongle works against both my 2013 DS and 2016 DSR. So, either the dongle is really adaptable to the signal pin reassignment, or there's something else going on here.
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That's interesting. Do you get the same output from the reaper dongle as I posted earlier? Or does it only do the CAN/ODB2 interface? I tried to buy one but Hollywood electrics are currently out of stock.
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That's interesting. Do you get the same output from the reaper dongle as I posted earlier? Or does it only do the CAN/ODB2 interface? I tried to buy one but Hollywood electrics are currently out of stock.
The dongle accesses the MBB console, and not the CAN itself.
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Also for MY13 you can use a USB-UART converter to communicate with the MBB.
I followed the same thread that rDacted mentioned (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4296.0 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=4296.0)) for building an adapter for my Zero 2013 S and it works.
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Sorry for my delayed response, I have changed all my content posts to notify me of new replies!
From the post skyrapper linked
2. Solder the wires to the pins on the OBDII connector as follows:
- black wire to pin 5
- white wire (RX) to pin 8
- green wire (TX) to pin 9
If you look at my ODB in my wire diagram the pins are appropriately labeled.
Pin 5 (orange black stripe) as GND
Pin 8 (Red black stripe) as RX
Pin 9 (Gray black stripe) as TX
That said I highly recommend the use of the diginow dongle if you ride a lot with a bluetooth enabled laptop like I do (to work every week day) as it is so quick to use when you have issues. Note this will only gain you access to CAN traffic / MBB settings and will not let you reprogram your controller. You need a DB9 serial port to USB plus software on top of this to access everything through just the ODBII if I recall.
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Awesome, thanks.
Could I make a recommendation that you remove the word 'USB' from those diagrams? They've confused me, and it seems others as well. I'd recommend 3.3v UART, or 3.3v serial. (not to be confused with RS232 serial which has much wider voltage swings and could damage things)
For reference I'm talking about the wiring diagrams here:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
and
http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Wiring_Diagram (http://zeromanual.com/index.php/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Wiring_Diagram)
Again, thanks for the wiring diagram. It's quite useful!
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When I get a chance I will update the labeling of the "USB" which references the USB to UART connector required to interface with the bike via the ODBII ;)
Anyone else have changes which are suggested I can make at the same time?
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When I get a chance I will update the labeling of the "USB" which references the USB to UART connector required to interface with the bike via the ODBII ;)
Anyone else have changes which are suggested I can make at the same time?
perhaps a note that the fuse order may be reversed as seen here: http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6004.msg45246#msg45246 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=6004.msg45246#msg45246)
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Different fuse box. The 2013 has 4 fuses not 6 ;)
If someone wants to attach a picture of the input / output side for a 2013 S / DS fuse box we can see if this is indeed the case.
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Long time no see :)
I had some time today and since I will be adding a DigiNow SC2 to my bike soon I had to make sure the "Aux port is being used to charge" feature was "added" to my bike. So I tried to confirm with Electric Cowboy that the Trikester mod was required and found the diagram was wrong >__<
Updated the diagram and tried to include all requested changes in the process.
Please review and provide feedback if something isn't accurate or the quality is lacking.
EDIT (04-23-2017) v1.3.0
- Changed blue underlined references to USB to either 3.3v UART or UART (in the case of the unused red wire) | rDacted
- Corrected the Aux "charging" indicator wires coming from the SBS75X pins 3 / 4 to indicate they connect to a siliconed female connector on the battery next to the B+ / Bi wires. (see attached image of connection point) | Electric Cowboy
- Updated pin 38 / 40 wires coming from MBB used by Trikester to let the bike know to accept AUX charging to include the switched 100K ohm resistor circuit and a note about why it exists. This is NOT a stock circuit on 2013 wire looms. | Electric Cowboy
- Updated Fuse box section to better reflect reality and changed the AUX circuit to stock amp size (10amps) from 30amps. This update propagated out to the wire labels where fuses are referenced. (see attached image for fuse box sticker) | MrDude_1
- Updated credit to include link to my signature link showing all content found here on EMF, which includes this post, from my personal website. | Burton
Download from original thread at attachment section:
http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961 (http://electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=3603.msg20961#msg20961)
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Excellent! I'll get these details on the wiki and link the new file.
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Excellent! I'll get these details on the wiki and link the new file.
I was going to tell you in a personal message but I figured you would be watching here or FB ;)
Might want to update the entry about the UART and add an entry about the manual over-ride Trikester had to implement for his FX custom build to get the bike to know the Aux charger port was in use.
Thanks for your hard work man :D
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Is there any chance you can share the file that Zero sent to you? I am looking to interface a 2.5kw charge tank as an external charger but I have no clue how to make it switch on without knowing what the connections are and I think your diagram might have the data I need.
It looks like your schematic will be easier to follow than the one Zero sent me when I bought the Powertrain kit for building my e-trike.
The paper size of Zero's schematic is approx 3' x 4' (when printed full size from my computer) and it is pretty full. I had to hang it on the wall to use it. Are you going to break yous up into separate drawings to make smaller prints? I originally tried to use a smaller printout for the entire schematic but it was too hard to read.
Sure wish I could save you this work and send mine but a signed agreement is to be honored.
Trikester