ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Mission Motors => Topic started by: lolachampcar on September 10, 2013, 03:57:37 AM
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Come'on guys..... Anything new to report? How's the production ramp going? Is the order book filling (did my part :) )?
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Well, they are riding the production prototype around. Here is a photo taken at Alice's Restaurant last month. I heard that the "S" model will be on sale next year. No doubt getting a new electric motorcycle approved by the California Air Resources Board and Environmental Protection Agency takes time. ::)
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Sweet - 140 MPH, 17 kWh battery, 4.5 kW onboard charger. If money were no object... ;-)
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Coming to the South East???
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Is that a Tesla Roadster in the background?
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porsche 911 cabriolet
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What a great area to test ride motorcycles in. I've been around there with friends on my V-Strom, and on weekends the lot is full of motorcycles and exotic sports cars. Teslas are pretty common in the area, certainly.
I would be curious what kind of details are involved with that charger, though I suppose as a racing-oriented bike they can just set themselves up for performance and expect the buyer to adapt.
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Does anyone who has ordered a Mission R have any updated news on delivery dates? Thanks.
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I just had an hour long conversation with the CEO of MM and OMG things are rolling along. If you've not talked with them in the past few months, give them a call and get an update.
As for delivery, I'm still hoping for this summer :)
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porsche 911 cabriolet
Behind it, there's a Tesla Roadster :-)
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You're right!
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I noticed an update on Mission's site which provides some hope that things are progressing. Of particular interest are the following items-
Top Speed - 140+ mph
Weight
12 kWh 490 lbs
15 kWh 510 lbs
17 kWh 540 lbs
Charging Time
Direct DC 220V 110V
12 kWh <30 minutes 1 hour 10 hours
15 kWh <30 minutes 1 hour, 25 mins 12 hours
17 kWh <30 minutes 1 hour, 40 mins 14 hours
First, there are 3 KWhr for 20lbs followed by 2 KWhr for 30 lbs. Seems that might have this backwards.
Second, Direct DC charging in under 30 minutes for a 17KWHr battery. This would indicate at least a 34 KWHr plus efficiency loss source. It would also seem to imply the bike could actually be used to go somewhere.
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It will be interesting to see if the production bike lives up to that hype. So far startup EV companies don't have a very good track record meeting their promised expectations. Other than Brammo and Zero most seem to either fade away or manufacture such a small number of hand-built vehicles (Lightning and RedShift come to mind), that you are very unlikely to ever see one of the road.
I am still waiting for the BMW e-scooter to show up. If BMW can't market an electric scooter, who can?
And the Japanese, in spite of all of their engineering and manufacturing resources, established dealerships and distribution networks, continue to appear to be scared to death of the two-wheel EV market. ???
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Why would any established ICE mfg build a quality BeV bike? All it would do is cannibalize sales of ICE. It will take a Mission or other newbe to make a serious run at it and start pulling volume from them before they will see the writing on the wall.
Tesla has done this with the Model S and the others are still sitting in circles scratching their heads. They have not figured out that the lights at the end of their tunnel are Model S headlights :)
Someone over at TeslaMotorsClub said Mission had moved away from the separate charger(s) and to using the inverter/motor to do the charging as well. They also pointed out that it would have to be at least 20 KW to give the published charge times. That is the size of a single Tesla Model S charger and is absolutely huge in the bike world.
WRT Mission being real, I sure hope for their investors they are as they have raised A LOT OF MONEY.
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TwinChargers are still listed as an option on the website.
DC charging is 34+ kW, in order to charge 17 kWh in < 30 minutes. I assume this is CHAdeMO or J1772 DC Combo ..
I assume you mean 10 kW for the AC charger. Yeah, that's huge.. and quite a bit beefier than a typical 32A J1772 plug can supply.
As to why an established ICE manufacturer would build an EV bike? Well.. for the same reasons they would build any new type of bike, I suppose.
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Money? ::)
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Oh, they are for real :) And they live up to the hype... Not sure about charge times, but it helps to have a liquid cooled charger. Everything else is as orgasmic as it sounds in reality.
-EC
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Yes, 10 KW charger. My bad. My MS has duals so 20 KW is stuck in my mind.
It's nice to hear from people that have ridden the bike. Thanks for the input.
I'm officially putting my vote in for the Tesla SuperCharger network (if my vote means anything :) )
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We are into February so summer will soon be here :)
I wonder if Mission reads the calendar like Tesla does? If they do, summer might actually be the very last day of September. I hope not. I'd like to see the first 100 ship out in June.
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Someone over at TeslaMotorsClub said Mission had moved away from the separate charger(s) and to using the inverter/motor to do the charging as well. They also pointed out that it would have to be at least 20 KW to give the published charge times. That is the size of a single Tesla Model S charger and is absolutely huge in the bike world.
WRT Mission being real, I sure hope for their investors they are as they have raised A LOT OF MONEY.
I'll play armchair pundit:
A big bold bet like that certainly has to be watched; I have to admit that without that detail, Mission seemed to be over-promising, but now I'm intrigued. The conceptual engineering elegance of using the power inverter for charging could be a huge advantage, or could be dangerously faulty.
It strikes me that maybe the EV company that succeeds is the one that learns the most, data-wise, from their prototypes and early production units. Zero makes the commuter motorcycle I actually need and are the closest to hitting volume numbers, but it's possible that Mission, after proving quality issues with these racing bikes can hit the big/touring market segment.
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On 220V, mission claims the following charge times (assume 0 to 95%):
12 kWh 1.0h .. 11.4 kW, 52A
15 kWh 1.42h .. 10.0 kW, 46A
17 kWh 1.67h .. 9.7 kW, 44A
With maybe a bit of rounding, this is pretty consistent with a 10 kW charge rate.
DC charge rate is < 30 minutes for all battery sizes, meaning the highest capacity battery pack must be able to accept a charge rate > 35 kW.
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I just went back to their web site to see if they still had confusing contradictions in their charging info.
The Features/Battery/Recharge anywhere section still mentions 4.5kw built-in with an optional twin charger for 9kw.
The 3 models listed under Buy used to say something about the tech package including some sort of fast charging option, but that is gone now. They now list 10kw included in all 3 models at no extra charge - which matches what I'd seen in the press, but which wasn't reflected on the web page the last time I looked.
They also now list the Tech Package as included in all 3 models, though I think the prices are adjusted to just remove the option to buy it without the tech package (it used to be $30k for the base model, right? Now it's $32.5k). Probably a smart move at their price points, I'm not sure anyone would have ordered it without the amazing tech package and now they don't have to develop any alternatives for the instrumentation which was likely affected by the features in the tech package (TBT navigation for instance).
Battery warranty is 6/60k - is that new?
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I have said for ages they need to be pursuing inverter charging on bikes. The setup on the Renault Zoe with their chameleon charger is brilliant. Anything from 3KW (less with an adapter) up to 43KW straight from 3 phase AC. Why bother installing an infrastructure of fast DC charging when you can do all the conversion onboard with even less weight than a standard charger.
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flar: they used to include the federal motorcycle 10% credit (max of $2500) in the price. The credit expired on 12/31/2013. I asked them about it earlier, they said they expected the credit to be renewed but it looks like MM has done the right thing and removed the credit from their price listing.
Old price for the 12 kWh bike was $32.5k, with the 4.5 kW charger and without the tech package. So they're including more equipment now at the same price.
They announced the 6/60 warranty a couple months ago I think.
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I have confirmed that the stand alone charger is gone. They are using motor/inverter to charge.
I've ordered mine without the (awesome) tech package so I guess I am one of the odd ones.