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Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: Doctorbass on September 10, 2013, 01:59:55 AM

Title: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Doctorbass on September 10, 2013, 01:59:55 AM

I got few PM and email about the install of a Cycle Analyst on the Zero.

Here is few tips for that:


Both 2012 or 2013 are the same as for the use of a cycle analyst. Wich mean the install is the same.

It's only the voltage diff between the 2012 and the 2013 Zero that require a version of cycle analyst capable of at least 100v for the 2012 and 150V for the 2013.

As well the lastest V3 cycle analyst is capable of more features but the V2.3 and up are capable of doing all the interesting job for the Zero ( Wh/km, power, volt, amp, min volt, max speed, Wh total etc...) 

-You need a cycle analyst that can take up to 150V for the 2013. The 2013 is 116V max si 150V cycle analyst is ok.
  and that  have the external magnet sensor  ex: High Current Model (CA-HC) http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CA.php (http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CA.php)
-You need a 300A minimum shunt   ( the model Shunt0.25 is perfect) http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CA.php (http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_CA.php)

If you follow the cycle analyst instruction document you will be able to do 80% of the job.
http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V225_Web.pdf (http://www.ebikes.ca/drainbrain/CA_Large_V225_Web.pdf)

The other 20% is some more complicate parts.

For the speed measurement you will need to order the cycle analyst version that have the external magnet sensor that you will attach to one of the  wheel. on the 2013 and 2013  I was not able to find any speed signal that can be read by the cycle analyst on the main bike board.. On the 2011 and previous model there was a speed sensor connected directly to the motor that was perfect, but the new brushless motor make it more difficult due to the different desing.

The main negative PP175 black conector on the top of the 2012 battery is the one that you will attach the shunt in serie between controller negative and battery connector.

You can attach the positive of the cycle analyst directly to the positive terminal of the controller.

All the work on the controller will require you to remove it by disassembling a part of the controller mount and also the rear tail fairings.


Since the Main Negative battery connector is very big and not flexible you will need to install a new one for your shunt. This mean to remake a new SB175 connector with gauge 1 or 0  wire that attach to the shunt and then to install another big wire from the shunt to the controller negative.. I have found that the best location for the shunt install is close to the controller  on the metal plate near the tail.. Ensure that the shunt terminals are  away from dust or rain.

Since the cycle analyst is on the front of the bike you will also need to install a 1A 250v fuse for each little cycle analyst wire that connect to the battery or controller or the shunt terminal. This mean 4 fuses. this will prevent fire in case where one of these wires would be shorted.

Doc

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Joseph on September 10, 2013, 02:08:26 PM

Thank you very much Doc for the detailed information.
Did you test the "Auto-Cruise Control" - feature too ?

have a nice day

Joseph

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: benswing on September 10, 2013, 05:33:26 PM

Thanks, Doctorbass!

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on September 17, 2014, 09:59:43 PM

Quote from: Doctorbass on September 10, 2013, 01:59:55 AM

I was not able to find any speed signal that can be read by the cycle analyst on the main bike board..

Do you remember which pins you tested? I requested a pin out layout for the Koso from the manufacture and if they dont give it to me i will just buy the harness if it will help. I also know the only pins being used with my controller coming from the motor are: (I don't know if any of these would work for our purposes but something from going to the koso display might.


www.quadmotion.se/shop/files/214845_Sevcon48V/Gen4_Product_Manual_V2.2.en.pdf (http://www.quadmotion.se/shop/files/214845_Sevcon48V/Gen4_Product_Manual_V2.2.en.pdf)

PIN	Name	Type	What to connect	Max Raiting	Comment	Wire color	source Pin
26	Encoder power supply +	Power	To the positive supply input of the speed encoder	I = 100mA V = 5V or 10V software selectable	Check the speed encoder you use is compatible with Gen4. See page 6-14 for configuration details.	Red	E
33	Motor thermistor in	Analog	From a thermistor device mounted inside the motor	V = 5V (via 2.2kOhm internal pull-up resistor)	A NTC thermistor having a resistance of approximately 2.2 kO at 100°C will give best sensitivity. Connect the other lead of the thermistor to the B- terminal of the Gen4 controller.Can also be used as an additional analog input	Gray / Black	H
35	Pot. 2 power supply +	Power	Supply feed to potentiometer 2.	V = 10V I = 15mA	Suitable for potentiometers in the range 500 ohm to 10kohm	White	B
15	Encoder power supply -	power	to the negative supply input (0 V) of the speed encoder	I = 100 mA V = 0.5V	We recommend the use of screened cable for the encoder wiring. Connect the screen to this pin only along with the negative supply.	Black	C
21	Digital input 8	Digital	from digital switch input 8	type B V = Vb see table 3	See note to table 3	Blue	A

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Doctorbass on September 18, 2014, 10:21:23 AM

I have measured every pin going to the koso and the only "speed signal" pin is a PWM type that you can not use with the C-A speed input type... unless you build a circuit that convert PWM to 0-5V wich might be easy in some case...

i just jave installed one f these old 2011- Zero magnetic speed sensor and installed it on teh rear wheel ;)

Doc

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Mr. Fusion on September 18, 2014, 01:34:47 PM

Is the PWM signal a 5V based signal? Then a simple RC filter would be enough to convert 5V PWM to 0-5V analog...

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 10, 2015, 08:07:50 PM

*Zombie thread I know* But I want to install one of these before streamlining so I have better data after I start streamlining.

What size shunt should be used for a size 6 controller ? 660 peak

Should SR's be using 750 or 500 size shunts?

Not sure what is considered "peak" on this brand:
http://www.rammeter.com/current-shunts?limit=99 (http://www.rammeter.com/current-shunts?limit=99)

If the shunt is 500A then if 500A is passed the mV to the CA would be 50 still right?
I want accuracy in my measurements even at higher amps if only for the couple of seconds I reach peak on my sevcon gen4 size6 controller ;)

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 08, 2017, 06:12:18 PM

Zombie thread but still relevant ;)

Installed the CA-HC unit yesterday, haven't had a chance to test it on the road yet but I believe I configured it correctly.

Video found here in HD: http://youtu.be/3a3ETyzg4Rg (http://youtu.be/3a3ETyzg4Rg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4168/33674424334_c3cefe4f28.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/TiGea1)

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on May 09, 2017, 01:09:21 AM

This is great! Thanks for clarifying what has so far seemed pretty intimidating. That said, I'm more inclined so far to leverage OEM data logging with phone ride logs to put together a picture of efficiency effects.

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 09, 2017, 02:03:43 AM

Quote from: BrianTRice on May 09, 2017, 01:09:21 AM

This is great! Thanks for clarifying what has so far seemed pretty intimidating. That said, I'm more inclined so far to leverage OEM data logging with phone ride logs to put together a picture of efficiency effects.

Yeah it isn't really too hard at all for sure ... pretty straight forward. even the configuration was fairly straight forward.

press left button for 2 seconds, enters settings, pressing right button for two seconds enters the setting you are looking at. Confirming a digit or setting by doing the same two second right button hold, go through set your distance preference (km / mi), your RShunt value, and if you can Zero Amps value and you are done. I also modified my wheel circumference, max amps, battery details etc ...

I did make a video of this process but not sure if it is worth uploading as it is really basic and kind of boring. There are other videos online with people configuring the CA as well so ...

The Zero app only collects data every minute ... and my display doesn't show me watt/miles while riding :/ ... the CA will be nice since i have the GPS data logger as well :D

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on May 09, 2017, 02:30:40 AM

Quote from: Burton on May 09, 2017, 02:03:43 AM

I did make a video of this process but not sure if it is worth uploading as it is really basic and kind of boring. There are other videos online with people configuring the CA as well so ...

If you can point to what you think is the clearest video explanation of it, it'd save me and others some time. Otherwise, I'd recommend uploading your boring video just so it's all clustered together as a set of explanations.

Quote from: Burton on May 09, 2017, 02:03:43 AM

The Zero app only collects data every minute ... and my display doesn't show me watt/miles while riding :/ ... the CA will be nice since i have the GPS data logger as well :D

Yeah, the 2013 display is extremely limiting for testing, and that's a very good reason to install the CA.

I'm talking about using the ODB2 interface as a source for data, which can get a much higher refresh rate. One option is to have it export live (using a DigiNow Bluetooth dongle and a serial terminal application on a mobile device), or export it periodically from the app.

Live export avoids syncing up timestamps, but is really not well-enabled by the existing toolchain. Periodic export is supported but means stitching together data sources using timeline remapping so is a real pain to integrate with other data. So, my expectation is that making live export easier will be the best path right now.

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 09, 2017, 06:51:17 AM

Quote from: BrianTRice on May 09, 2017, 02:30:40 AM

I'm talking about using the ODB2 interface as a source for data, which can get a much higher refresh rate. One option is to have it export live (using a DigiNow Bluetooth dongle and a serial terminal application on a mobile device), or export it periodically from the app.

Have you dont a live export while connected via the terminal session to the reaper dongle? From what I recall the moment you connect it disengages the bike so it cannot move?

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 10, 2017, 07:35:15 AM

Video about how to set your CA HC up.

Mistake mentioned in comments for this video as annotations have been removed from YT

Cycle Analyst Calibration for HC unit (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z2pZKDIEIY)

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 13, 2017, 10:06:34 PM

Getting some baseline data to use for post / pre streamlining (I have a turret installed right now to block wind so ...)

Anyone have one of these on a mostly stock bike without fairings or am I going to have to remove my fairings and test again? :D

GPS takes a while to acquire satellites or I would better be able to judge when I am on flat ground via the data ... but I have two of these with the same trip and roughly same speed.

So ~75mph is about ~160Wh/Mi

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4194/34470951252_c950a7d4a4.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Uw5CRJ)

On a side note I noticed my max amperage has been limited to 500 from the MMB ... not sure how this happened but I plan to rectify it this weekend.

If anyone wants me to run specific tests let me know and I will consider it.

(EDIT: you can monitor / record charging as well :D )

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4189/34633450965_919514cc05.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ULrumV)

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: Burton on May 14, 2017, 05:37:24 PM

Updated the install video link above to point to a new link. The old one had issues with the last clip being out of sync. Thankfully someone pointed it out to me.

Title: Re: Cycle Analyst install on 2012-2013 Zero
Post by: BrianTRice@gmail.com on May 26, 2017, 07:35:04 PM

Quote from: Burton on May 09, 2017, 06:51:17 AM

Quote from: BrianTRice on May 09, 2017, 02:30:40 AM

I'm talking about using the ODB2 interface as a source for data, which can get a much higher refresh rate. One option is to have it export live (using a DigiNow Bluetooth dongle and a serial terminal application on a mobile device), or export it periodically from the app.

Have you dont a live export while connected via the terminal session to the reaper dongle? From what I recall the moment you connect it disengages the bike so it cannot move?

I haven't been able to arrange a live export while riding but I have kept a session open while testing driving modes with the bike on a stand.

Using an antiquated Android phone hasn't helped me develop anything for live export, since my side project time is very limited and mobile development is hard to do casually, especially on Android.