ElectricMotorcycleForum.com
Makes And Models => Zero Motorcycles Forum | 2012 and older => Topic started by: benswing on November 27, 2012, 01:24:48 AM
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Here is a first try at collecting the easy data that people might find interesting. I made a spreadsheet using google docs for everyone to share their riding miles and some other information. If you don't want to fill out every column, I don't care, but I am most interested in total driven. You can update this as often or infrequently as you like, but I think it will provide some interesting information.
Go to this link and hopefully soon we'll have a decent idea of how far people have gone on their Zero!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1C9ABaL4hBdDhCNUVjSVhRUlVZSGVCMnZ6TDZSOGc
Constructive feedback is welcome! If there is other information you think would be interesting to gather in this manner, let me know.
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Nice chart, Ben. How do you want us to fill it in? I mean, should I start on the line below your name (which then will have my entries overlapping your summary in columns M & N, or should I start on line 7 or so?
--Karl
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If you enter your information directly below mine (on line 2), then it should add into the summary information to the right. When you enter your info into columns A-K it will automatically update the information to the right.
Thanks!
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Here is a first try at collecting the easy data that people might find interesting. I made a spreadsheet using google docs for everyone to share their riding miles and some other information. If you don't want to fill out every column, I don't care, but I am most interested in total driven. You can update this as often or infrequently as you like, but I think it will provide some interesting information.
Go to this link and hopefully soon we'll have a decent idea of how far people have gone on their Zero!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1C9ABaL4hBdDhCNUVjSVhRUlVZSGVCMnZ6TDZSOGc
Constructive feedback is welcome! If there is other information you think would be interesting to gather in this manner, let me know.
Good idea benswing. I think you need to change the sharing settings to make the document editable by everyone. I can see the document, but it is in View Only mode.
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Thank you, swiftsam! I just changed the settings, so anyone can now edit the document. Was wondering why nobody was sharing their miles... :)
Let me know if you still have difficulty with it. You should be able to edit now and add your information.
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I just updated the spreadsheet so everyone can edit now. Also, I put in data from this forum to get it started. Please feel free to add/update your miles.
With just a cursory look around the forum, here are the stats:
East miles - 25,000
West miles - 27,496
Int'l miles - 3,300
Total electric miles on a Zero Motorcycle - 54,796
So far offthegrid has the most miles recorded with 13,000 and with his cross country trip, he seems a safe bet to hold the record.
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:)
And the weather is just now turning nice for season #2.
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I am up to only 4700 miles, but then I ride all of my other motorcycles at least once a week in order to keep their gas from going stale and their oil seals lubed.
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Just passed 9000 today (13 months of ownership, 10 months of riding). 76 mile predicted range = nice.
Beautiful riding weather here now. Unfortunately cutout glitches are increasing in frequency (2 this am).
Tradition is pizza every 1k miles. Only oil the bike has to deal with : )
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Nice mileage! Also, I love the Tesla>Edison graphic!
Also, if anyone who hasn't updated in a while could go to the link and update your miles, that would be cool! We have logged over 135,000 miles on this spreadsheet and I'm sure there are many more miles that are unaccounted for!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1C9ABaL4hBdDhCNUVjSVhRUlVZSGVCMnZ6TDZSOGc#gid=0
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Nice pizza tradition ProtoMech. Congratulations on the 9K milestone.
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Passed 3K perfect miles on my 12 Zero DS ZF9 today. Time to update the spreadsheet.....
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Passed 3K perfect miles on my 12 Zero DS ZF9 today. Time to update the spreadsheet.....
That's weird, so did I. On my S. Not so perfect for me though but still love it.
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Yay! :)
(I see Terry's up to 53K!!!)
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Passed 8500 miles on the DS ZF-6 today, and 24 months on the road. Haven't arranged the latest recall for a firmware update yet-- it's not glitched once since the last recall!
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I just passed 8000 miles after 2 years, also. I am still trying to get an appointment with my dealer to perform the glitch recall, but they are really busy repairing IC motorcycles due to the beautiful weather here, which brings them out in droves, while their riders crash them almost as fast. No glitches here either, but I would like to get the recall done just to keep it at bay. ;)
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6000 on my 2012 DS
300 on my 2014 SR to date.
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Just turned over 7,000 miles on my 2012 S ZF9.
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I put 8,326 on my 2012 Zero S before I gave it to my daughter. I am planning to pile up more than that on my 2014 S.
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;D ;D ;D ;D
The famed red rocks amphitheater. What better place to hit a mileage milestone?
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Doesn't look like very many people are updating this spreadsheet. I am curious what the average milage per month is for each member of this forum? For me it was easy to calculate because I have only owned my 2014DS for two months now. (2000/2 = 1000miles)
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Before I moved, I was riding 25-60 miles per workday .. around a thousand miles per month during the regular riding season.
I moved to Nashville about a year ago, and my riding activity dropped way down - around 200-250 miles per month now. Partly that's due to a much shorter commute (~4 miles/day instead of 25 miles/day), and partly that's due to my typical errand destinations being more tightly clustered together. It's also a little more difficult to charge here, as I don't have easy access to a charge point in the apartment parking deck and typically just charge outside at work, which makes longer trips slightly more difficult.
In the 16 months since I last updated the spreadsheet I've ridden about 3300 miles, just over 12000 miles total now.
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My average mileage is around 200 miles per week, or around 865 miles per month.
I'm averaging around 94 miles per charge on my ZF11.4 S
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I have been riding my 2014 S about 500 miles a month, while riding all of my other motorcycles together about the same total distance each month. So 50-50 electric and gas.
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947 miles logged as the bike sits right now in the parking garage at work, I expect to break the 1,000 mark this week. I picked the bike up on 5/13/14 with 32 miles on the clock (dealer said they were factory run-in miles on a dyno?). Commute is 6.4 miles one-way, plus 5-15 miles per day at lunch break most days.
Since Zero purchase (I'm considering starting to measure time in days/months/years A.Z. - After Zero), 358 miles on the cage, 781 miles on the Magna (755 of which was a TX hill country trip, 0 miles since return from that trip on 6/8/14, poor Magna), 32 miles on the Versys which I've now decided to sell (http://austin.craigslist.org/mcy/4551306317.html) (25 of those miles were to shoot photos for this ad).
Someone warned me that the gassers wouldn't be feeling the love quite so much. They were right.
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100 or 200 miles a month. I work from home and use the bike for quick shopping once every while.
Last Sunday I went to a cinema watch Dragon 2 with my wife, and the Zero :) We used the storage compartment to bring back left popcorn and cola, yes, cola! It stayed in place, no mess.
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We used the storage compartment to bring back left popcorn and cola, yes, cola! It stayed in place, no mess.
Haha, yep! I've carried smoothies. Yes, they had Kale. :-[
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taking a few liberties with your document... hope it's ok... I'm just one of those excel guys.
added a column for purchase date, so that the math can calculate miles/day ridden since purchase... better representation than by using model year, especially with a few us having bought 2012 models this year :) also extrapolated the formulae to the end of the sheet, so it will work for any new folks that fill it in.
for those who put purchase date in comments, I added the info in the new column, so your math is correct. for the others I'll simply copy the model year over, and your new math will match your old math, and updating the purchase date will update the miles/day to new math.
If you guys have any special requests for it, let me know, I'm pretty good at this spreadsheet/math thing :)
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I broke the 10 000km step last week.
I expect to do alot more with my very fast cahrger and my ZF15 diy Battery upgrade!
Doc
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taking a few liberties with your document... hope it's ok... I'm just one of those excel guys.
added a column for purchase date, so that the math can calculate miles/day ridden since purchase... better representation than by using model year, especially with a few us having bought 2012 models this year :) also extrapolated the formulae to the end of the sheet, so it will work for any new folks that fill it in.
for those who put purchase date in comments, I added the info in the new column, so your math is correct. for the others I'll simply copy the model year over, and your new math will match your old math, and updating the purchase date will update the miles/day to new math.
If you guys have any special requests for it, let me know, I'm pretty good at this spreadsheet/math thing :)
Thanks! I had tried to do this myself, but Google Spreadsheets documentation was inadequate, and I'm typically a coder not a spreadsheet wiz.
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@protomech"Tradition is pizza every 1k miles. Only oil the bike has to deal with : )"
I spit up my orange juice on that one lol
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taking a few liberties with your document... hope it's ok... I'm just one of those excel guys.
added a column for purchase date, so that the math can calculate miles/day ridden since purchase... better representation than by using model year, especially with a few us having bought 2012 models this year :) also extrapolated the formulae to the end of the sheet, so it will work for any new folks that fill it in.
for those who put purchase date in comments, I added the info in the new column, so your math is correct. for the others I'll simply copy the model year over, and your new math will match your old math, and updating the purchase date will update the miles/day to new math.
If you guys have any special requests for it, let me know, I'm pretty good at this spreadsheet/math thing :)
Thanks! I had tried to do this myself, but Google Spreadsheets documentation was inadequate, and I'm typically a coder not a spreadsheet wiz.
google docs is a little weird because of right click limitations, but it follows typical spreadsheet formula systems close enough to sort out if you're into that kinda thing :)
debated fixing it for like 15 minutes actually. usually don't "take over" with something like that, but it was pretty obvious where the math was trying to go, and I knew I could fix it easily, so I sorta took off with it a little. good to hear nobody is upset by it ;)
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Just passed the 3,000 mile mark on my ZF9, owned since May 2014. Started a regularish run of 60 miles round trip to university. Only one waterproofing glitch so far, which I think I have fixed, but now heading into Autumn... Loving the Zero so far, but mindful of potential issues.
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After putting 8k miles on my 2012 S, I now have over 3,500 miles on the 2014 S that I purchased in February. In addition to that during that time I put about 8k miles on all of my other IC motorcycles riding longer trips.
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The latest milestone, 22,000 miles. I only go about 5,000 per year, but my summer trips give my mileage a 4-6,000 miles boost each year.
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Have you noticed a drop in battery capacity (range) with 22,000 miles on the clock?
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Still have the same range as when it was new. Could do another 114 mile ride on one charge if I felt like it.
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Still have the same range as when it was new. Could do another 114 mile ride on one charge if I felt like it.
8)
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Similar to Ben after 68,000 miles, each of my cells has the same capacity they started with. I just have a few more cells now then I started with ;)
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Wow 68,000 and still the same capacity? Now that's nice to hear!
Maybe they are not lying then when they say 300,000 miles and 80% capacity still!!
But I am wondering if it is also a matter of time. Imagining somebody doing 10,000miles in 10 years for example: way below number of charges, but 10 years time. Would that limit capacity?
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Researchers are finding that total miles is main contributing factor to battery fatigue. If you live in a hot area they will fatigue slightly faster, if you live in a cold area they will fatigue slower. Fast charging doesn't appear to make much difference.
Time also does not appear to make a difference. I thought I read that in an article, but can't remember exactly which one right now. I have strong confidence that battery concerns are mostly misguided and that they will last longer than expected.
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Time also does not appear to make a difference.
I'm pretty sure that's correct. My understanding is that lithium-based batteries, when idle (no load or charging current), form a passive barrier between the anode and cathode (positive and negative terminals). That reduces the self-discharge rate to almost absolutely nothing, which is why lithium primary (non-rechargeable) batteries have nearly infinite shelf life. A lithium battery that is neither charging nor powering a load is pretty much inert.
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My batteries started degrading at 20k. At 22k range dropped to less than half of nomal. Zero replaced the pack under warranty. Since then, I have had no issues.
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How to update the spreadsheet if you bought your bike used and it's already in the spreadsheet under former owner's name?
My bike passed the 10k mark last week. Former owner put on the first 6.5k.
Jerome
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All range-capacity talk is interesting.
First of all, range is not capacity. Headwinds, speed impact your range, but not your capacity. Temperature definitely impacts range (I get 40% less range at 20F than I do at 90F), and as Ben noted has an impact on capacity loss.
Also note that Terry has added lots of extra batteries to his bike, making it a "ZF21". So his 68,000 miles is equivalent to about 19,500 miles on a ZF6 like mine, in terms of 100DOD battery wear.
How do you measure capacity then? I don't profess to knowing the answer, but here's what I've done. I ride the Bike until the top speed WOT is 30 mph on a flat, no wind, 70-80F ambient. I then charge the battery completely, measuring how much energy it takes. I've done this experiment 5 times over 2.5 years, as I don't like to discharge the battery that much. When the bike was brand new, the kill-o-watt showed ~6.2 kWh. Last month, after 16,000 miles (equivalent to 24,000 miles on a ZF9), the kill-o-watt was showing ~5.9 kWh. I can only assume that my pack has lost about 5% of capacity; and that by ~65,000 miles (the bike will be 10 years old) I'll be at the 80% mark.
If my pack really has lost 5%, how would it show up in the "fuel gauge"? I haven't perceived any changes in miles/bar for the top bars, but 5% is tiny compared to other range effects like headwind. I think I can tell that the bottommost bar disappears faster, again hard to say. Comments?
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I plan on installing a cycle analyzer so I can better track watt usage real time and know what makes a difference.
I think speed makes more of a difference than temperature for me so far. Going to work with the temperature at 45 at 65-70 mph leaves me with ~56% pack left. If I travel at a flat 60mph in same weather conditions I can arrive with ~68%
My bike is geared for speed if I recall and it is running a size six controller without any fairings and the addition of a topcase on my rear seat.
Currently I run in sport mode as Eco mode uses more energy on my bike as it was modified for racing. In the future I will add a real time regen modifier when I break down and get DVT and the time to add it.
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How do you measure capacity then?
Here's what I'm doing: I'm recording battery capacity left (as reported by the bike) every day when I get home from work. Even though there are small daily variations (I stop at the store to pick up some milk and eggs, I go to lunch from work that day, traffic was heavy or light, etc.), it's a highly repeatable ride and the average should be very consistent. I started collecting data in the middle of June, graphed it up in Excel, and so far if anything the trend is upwards. I don't know if the battery capacity is actually increasing due to some sort of "wearing in" process (which seems unlikely), it's just random fluctuations in my data collection, or if it's the weather (which seems the most likely to me).
At any rate, over the years I should see a trend, and when that trend starts to dip, that will indicate my batteries are aging.
Assuming I don't move before then, of course.
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My total battery capacity increased about 6% total going to about 45,000 miles then has held steady since then. There is a strange break in capacity increase I can not explain but even the data sheets seem to indicate that up to about 250 full charge/discharge cycles at 1C charge/discharge, the capacity goes up. For most of us, it will take longer than 250 cycles (perhaps 1000) as we don't full discharge to 100% DOD each time. Partial discharge cycles down to 20% have minimal effect on break in/cycle life from what I can tell. Keeping the battery about 20% or charging immediately when running close to empty will greatly increase cycle life.
There is a link to the datasheet in the first post here: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51226 (http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=51226)
Terry
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Here is a first try at collecting the easy data that people might find interesting. I made a spreadsheet using google docs for everyone to share their riding miles and some other information. If you don't want to fill out every column, I don't care, but I am most interested in total driven. You can update this as often or infrequently as you like, but I think it will provide some interesting information.
Go to this link and hopefully soon we'll have a decent idea of how far people have gone on their Zero!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Al1C9ABaL4hBdDhCNUVjSVhRUlVZSGVCMnZ6TDZSOGc
Constructive feedback is welcome! If there is other information you think would be interesting to gather in this manner, let me know.
Done :D
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20000!
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Ugh. I'd joke about the 62,000 miles I have on my odo, but that's some sort of screwup from getting my BMS & wiring harness replaced. I actually have about 1500 on it, so I guess that's about 750 miles a month (jan/feb) and I put about 210 miles on it over Memorial day weekend.
My "range left" indication is hopelessly confused and now just wobbles between 74 and 83 miles, no matter the charge state or how I'm riding.
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20000!
Awesome! Way to go! Are you going to Pike's Peak this year?
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Hit 20000 on the way into work today!
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Well for the DS 2010 so far it has done a whopping 1486 miles. I have spent over a week trying to get really basic parts for it (Carbon brushes) without success to date. I don't think it will be clocking up any additional miles soon. it has managed about 8 miles this year but then I had to push it when it died for 3 km of that.
The bike cost my brother new, $13,590 here in 2010. Cost about $9 / mile to run so far. Asked about trade ins with the Zero dealers here in Australia. They don't want to touch it and will so far offer nothing for it. They can't as yet provide parts for it (Manny at Zero in the USA is trying really hard to help with this)... I can't take it anywhere willing to work on it. I am left now that as yet I can't get the parts for it, can't fix it, can't get it serviced anywhere, can't trade it in, not worth more than scrap to sell right now, even working the Zero dealers don't want it. Not good Zero, on a bike that is less than 5 years old (Will turn 5 in Nov, first rego, that cost about 14K to get it on the road and no rebates)....
I have had the argument thrown at me, that spending 2-3 K on a new motor would be a great investment. Since petrol bikes would have spent that much after 5 years. That is fine, except I don't want to spend 2 k every 1500 miles to keep it going!!! Most other bikes after 5 years would have done more than 1500 miles too.
Cam
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Ugh. I'd joke about the 62,000 miles I have on my odo, but that's some sort of screwup from getting my BMS & wiring harness replaced.
Had the exact same thing. Went into the dealer with 640km on it to get a faulty MBB swapped. Came back showing 118,000km - didn't notice until I got home. Gave the dealer a call, they lined up a time with Zero and then stopped by on the way to work this morning and they corrected it while I waited.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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This week I went over the 46.000 KM which is 28583 Miles
I drive My DS ZF11.4 2013 all year round and it is still doing well.
I come from the Netherlands and filled in the overview.
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Wow, that's a lot of kilometers (and miles)! Thanks for adding your name and info.